A-dex during pct? Anyone?

[dashizzle]

Would adex be effective during pct? Do any of you use other compounds during pct besides Nolva, and HCG? and why?

Just curious.

[hazcat]

Certainly adex can be effective during pct. Especially during the first part of it when you're waiting for the injected products to clear your system. The whole purpose of pct is to get rid of excess estrogen and get your natural body functions as far as testosterone production back to operating normally. Estrogen is the normal signal to stop natural testosterone production. Adex will help keep estrogen levels low while nolvadex will block the receptors estrogen binds to.

The other products I've used during pct are clomid, bromocriptine, cabergolamine, cialis.
Why? Clomid works similar to nolva. I use nolva now and haven't used clomid lately but wouldn't hesitate to use it again. Bromo and cabergoline for cycles with deca and tren.
Cialis will help pump up the shrunken boys. Particularly when running low on hcg but I run them both most of the time.

[HarleyD]

i've never heard of cialis. You mind explaining a bit?

[WilliamH.Bonney]

I never use an AI during PCT. Your body is producing little to no testosterone, therefore it is producing little to no estrogen. Certainly not enough estrogen to keep you shut down. An SERM should be sufficient to accomplish the intended goal of restarting your natural testosterone production.

[HarleyD]

I agree with will. The Adex IMO should be used during cycle in order to regulate test into estrogen. Wouldn't make much sense to use for PCT. Stick to your Nolva/chlomid/HCG...........oh and never mind hazcat i got my answer!

[access]

Just to clear a couple of things up here.

William made mention that during PCT your body is producing very little of it's own testosterone. This is true but you have overlooked that you have just been shooting exogenous test and possibly other steroids for several weeks. All of which have half lifes and therfore with a typical mid term half life means it is still in your body for up to 3 weeks from last injection.

Let's also remember that arimidex is used as a form of test replacement on hypogonadal men as well as it's primary use as a combatant against breast cancer in women. In studies it has shown to raise hypogonadal men's test levels by as much as 60%.

So I see no reason why you could not run an AI into PCT (especially the early part as Haz alluded to) because clearly there are some benefits that could be had here. During that period where the exgogenous test is still circulating would be ideal for those who are particularly prone to gyno and possibly have been running an AI through-out cycle.

Once your ready to commence with Nolva then I would stop the AI. Of course if your fortunate enough to not have to run an AI through cycle then using for PCT would probably be unwarranted also.

[WilliamH.Bonney]

Originally Posted by access

Just to clear a couple of things up here.

William made mention that during PCT your body is producing very little of it's own testosterone. This is true but you have overlooked that you have just been shooting exogenous test and possibly other steroids for several weeks. All of which have half lifes and therfore with a typical mid term half life means it is still in your body for up to 3 weeks from last injection.

Let's also remember that arimidex is used as a form of test replacement on hypogonadal men as well as it's primary use as a combatant against breast cancer in women. In studies it has shown to raise hypogonadal men's test levels by as much as 60%.

So I see no reason why you could not run an AI into PCT (especially the early part as Haz alluded to) because clearly there are some benefits that could be had here. During that period where the exgogenous test is still circulating would be ideal for those who are particularly prone to gyno and possibly have been running an AI through-out cycle.

Once your ready to commence with Nolva then I would stop the AI. Of course if your fortunate enough to not have to run an AI through cycle then using for PCT would probably be unwarranted also.

I consider the time period, or tapering effect of AAS, you mention as still being on cycle. Yes, you could and should still be using an AI during this time period, but you should be tapering off of the AI at this time. I am speaking only of "Post" cycle. This is the time when very little if any exogenous testosterone is still circulating in your system.

Arimidex is in fact not used as a testosterone replacement in men. Only exogenous testosterone can be used to "replace" endogenous testosterone. Arimidex is used to reduce estradiol in turn raising endogenous testosterone levels. Estradiol is an extremely potent inhibitor of LH and FSH secretion. Even more so than testosterone. During PCT I do not see excess estradiol as being much of an issue. Can you use an AI during this time? Sure, it's your money do what you want.

[access]

Your slightly mistaken here sorry William.

Arimidex does not effect estradiol greatly at all. It does reduce it somewhat but not significantly whereas it DOES raise endogenous test levels and this is why I raised the issue that it has been trialed as a "form" of test replacement in hypogonadal men rather than direct test replacement.

See below as reference:

Effects of aromatase inhibition in elderly men with low or borderline-low serum testosterone levels.

Leder BZ, Rohrer JL, Rubin SD, Gallo J, Longcope C.
Endocrine Unit, Department of Medicine, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, Massachusetts 02114, USA.

As men age, serum testosterone levels decrease, a factor that may contribute to some aspects of age-related physiological deterioration. Although androgen replacement has been shown to have beneficial effects in frankly hypogonadal men, its use in elderly men with borderline hypogonadism is controversial. Furthermore, current testosterone replacement methods have important limitations. We investigated the ability of the orally administered aromatase inhibitor, anastrozole, to increase endogenous testosterone production in 37 elderly men (aged 62-74 yr) with screening serum testosterone levels less than 350 ng/dl. Subjects were randomized in a double-blind fashion to the following 12-wk oral regimens: group 1: anastrozole 1 mg daily (n = 12); group 2: anastrozole 1 mg twice weekly (n = 11); and group 3: placebo daily (n = 14). Hormone levels, quality of life (MOS Short-Form Health Survey), sexual function (International Index of Erectile Function), benign prostate hyperplasia severity (American Urological Association Symptom Index Score), prostate-specific antigen, and measures of safety were compared among groups. Mean +/- SD bioavailable testosterone increased from 99 +/- 31 to 207 +/- 65 ng/dl in group 1 and from 115 +/- 37 to 178 +/- 55 ng/dl in group 2 (P < 0.001 vs. placebo for both groups and P = 0.054 group 1 vs. group 2). Total testosterone levels increased from 343 +/- 61 to 572 +/- 139 ng/dl in group 1 and from 397 +/- 106 to 520 +/- 91 ng/dl in group 2 (P < 0.001 vs. placebo for both groups and P = 0.012 group 1 vs. group 2). Serum estradiol levels decreased from 26 +/- 8 to 17 +/- 6 pg/ml in group 1 and from 27 +/- 8 to 17 +/- 5 pg/ml in group 2 (P < 0.001 vs. placebo for both groups and P = NS group 1 vs. group 2). Serum LH levels increased from 5.1 +/- 4.8 to 7.9 +/- 6.5 U/liter and from 4.1 +/- 1.6 to 7.2 +/- 2.8 U/liter in groups 1 and 2, respectively (P = 0.007 group 1 vs. placebo, P = 0.003 group 2 vs. placebo, and P = NS group 1 vs. group 2). Scores for hematocrit, MOS Short-Form Health Survey, International Index of Erectile Function, and American Urological Association Symptom Index Score did not change. Serum prostate-specific antigen levels increased in group 2 only (1.7 +/- 1.0 to 2.2 +/- 1.5 ng/ml, P = 0.031, compared with placebo). These data demonstrate that aromatase inhibition increases serum bioavailable and total testosterone levels to the youthful normal range in older men with mild hypogonadism. Serum estradiol levels decrease modestly but remain within the normal male range. The physiological consequences of these changes remain to be determined.

Either way we agree that running an AI for 2-3 weeks after last test shot does have it's advantages and this is what Haz initally made mention of and you initially seemed to dispute but perhaps this was due to the confliction on exactly when PCT commences.

[dashizzle]

Thanks,guys.
I appreciate all the insight. And it seems to be an issue that many people over the internet have very different opinions on.

Again, thanks.

[access]

Your right dashizzle and that goes to the point that differing drugs haven't different effects on all of us. This is why experimentation is needed as there are certainly some good solid guidelines to go by and for the most part this will suit the majority but there is always some who experience different effects from that expected or in some cases no effects at all. It does happen.