Estrogen and AI's will it effect your gains ?? - Anabolic Steroids

Merc. · #1 (**permalink**) 05-01-2008, 06:44 PM

Hi all

Here is a article I wrote about the importance of estrogen( in the muscle building process)..

My article was published in the Feb 2008 issue of MD magazine ( and was originally posted on steroid.com)..

ESTROGEN AND AI's
Will taking AI's effect my gains ?
By Merc.

When you talk about testosterone you also usually hear words like estrogen and aromatase ..

Most people that use AAS understand that testosterone converts to estrogen (via aromatase enzyme) and this causes problems like bloating, gyno, and other side effects. People have been posting on message boards, lately, inquiring as to how AI's and estrogen relate to muscle gains.

Estrogen is important to the muscle-building process. Estrogen has been linked to increases in GH and IGF-1. Therefore, in essence, some of testosterone's effects are dependent, to a degree, on the aromatization process..

For instance, cattle are given estradiol in order to "beef" them up. And when cattle ranchers choose a single drug treatment, they always pick estrogen. ( Anthony Roberts recently did a radio interview about it) .This is because estrogen's role is important. Think about it, how many people report that when using AI's their gains are diminished? AI's reduce estrogen levels which, in turn, reduce GH and IGF-1 levels.

I have a buddy that has done 2 cycles. The first he used Testosterone enanthate at 500 mg per week with Arimidex at 0.5 EOD. His second cycle consisted of 600 mg of testosterone cypionate per week with 40 mg of Dbol per day (with .5mg Arimidex per day). He ate well and trained intensely yet he wasn't making the gains he expected to make considering the drugs he was using. This friend made an appointment with his doctor and the doctor ordered a total testosterone and total estrogen blood test. It turned out, his estrogen was extremely low.. He then finished his cycle and did a proper pct and took time off to recover ..

Than he did another cycle using Dianabol, testosterone enanthate at 600 mg per week, and no AI. This time his body responded incredibly. People that didnt see him for a few months didnt even recognize him. He went beck to the doctor and asked for blood work while he was on cycle (7 weeks into the latest cycle). This time around, his estrogen was high (around 300 ng/ml with 120 ng/ml or less being considered norma. Likewise, his strength was through the roof and he reported a great sense of well being and energy associated with what he was doing. There were no real side-effects that were where experienced. He also never looked real bloated.

Let's not forget, gynecomastia (***** tits) thrive on high estrogen levels so you never to let that hormone climb too high. Remember, minimize the breast's exposure to estrogen; but don't get rid of it completely.

Merc. · #2 (**permalink**) 05-01-2008, 10:02 PM

I also wrote this about gyno .... Check it out ...

There has been a lot of post as of late concerning gyno .. I wanted to go over a few things that seem to be misunderstood ..

Lets start with talking about gyno .. What is it ? The medical term is gynecomastia .. It is the formation of breast tissue .. Here is the medical definition of gynecomastia..

Gynecomastia

Alternative Names
Breast development in a male
Definition
Gynecomastia is the development of abnormally large breasts in males.

Considerations
The condition may occur in one or both breasts and begins as a small lump beneath the nipple, which may be tender. The breasts often enlarge unevenly. Gynecomastia during puberty is not uncommon, and usually goes away over a period of months.
In newborns, breast development may be associated with milk flow (galactorrhea). This condition usually lasts for a couple of weeks, but in rare cases may last until the child is 2 years old.

Causes
The most common cause of gynecomastia is puberty.
Other causes include:
Chronic liver disease
Exposure to anabolic steroid hormones
Exposure to estrogen hormone
Genetic disorders
Kidney failure
Marijuana use
Side effects of some medications
Testosterone (male hormone) deficiency
Rare causes include:
Genetic defects
Overactive thyroid
Tumors

Home Care
Apply cold compresses and use analgesics as your health care provider recommends if swollen breasts are also tender.

When to Contact a Medical Professional
Call your health care provider if the breasts have developed abnormally or if there is swelling or pain in one or both breasts.
Note: Gynecomastia in children who have not yet reached puberty should always be checked by a health care provider.

What to Expect at Your Office Visit
Your health care provider will take a medical history and perform a physical examination.
Medical history questions may include:
Is one or both breasts involved?
What is the age and gender of the patient?
What medications is the person taking?
How long has gynecomastia been present?
Is the gynecomastia staying the same, getting better, or getting worse?
What other symptoms are present?
Testing may not be necessary, but the following tests may be done to rule out certain diseases:
Blood hormone level tests
Breast ultrasound
Liver and kidney function studies
Mammogram
Intervention:
If an underlying condition is found, it is treated. Gynecomastia during puberty usually goes away on its own; however, persistent, extreme, or uneven breast enlargement may be embarrassing for an adolescent boy. Breast reduction surgery may be recommended.
After seeing your health care provider:
If your health care provider made a diagnosis related to gynecomastia, you may want to note that diagnosis in your personal medical record.
Update Date: 12/6/2007

As you can see from the common causes ( listed above), gyno can occur during puberty .. There are many other known things that can cause gyno .. Steroids is not the only thing .. People seem to relate gyno mostly with steroid use , but they are surprised when I tell them all the other things that can contribute to having the dreaded ***** tits form..

I see a lot of post on the board about people asking about gyno and how estrogen's role is very important in it's formation ..

There is a misconception about this ( so it seems ) ... Yes, estrogen's role is a important one in the formation of gyno .. Gyno needs estrogen to form .. You see these post about it all the time .. " Take a AI's to try to knock out estrogen so gyno cant form " .. " If there isn't any estrogen you wont get gyno" blah blah blah ..

Well as we know estrogen is also important in the muscle building process ( I spoke about it in my estrogen and Ai post)... So trying to totally destroy it is not the best idea as it can reduce your gains .. As well as the health benefits estrogen provides in men ( I will do another post on that though in the future)..

As I have said .. and as you probably have heard (a bunch of times ) .. at least if you are an active member here .. Gyno needs estrogen to form , but what you dont hear a lot is that gyno acually requires estrogen , progesterone as well as other mediators such as IGF and GH to form ..

Gyno cant not form if the internal conditions are not right.. Estrogen or progesterone alone cant cause gyno ..

So like estrogen , progesterone will have minimal effects in breast development ( without anterior pituitary hormones ).. Development of breast tissue im men occurs in a simialir manner as it does in a females ( same hormones cause it)....

Males testes secrete 6 -10 mg of of estradiol per day .. The rest comes from the aromatization of testosterone , as well as androstenedione to estradiol and estrone.. So if you are taking steroids the test your body is converting to estrogen could possible create the proper environment for gyno to form , but I want to clear up the misinformation I keep seeing on the web so people can start to understand that is is not just estrogen that causes gyno ..

People using 19nors ( like deca, tren ) are concerned with progesterone ( and prolactin) issues .. Its is the samething .. Gyno requires progesterone , estrogen ( as well as other mediator's to form).. People using 19 nors could also consider using letro as it has been shown to lower PgR ( progesterone receptors)...

So yes controlling estrogen is a good way to avoid gyno , but I wanted to clear this up a little bit so more people understand it's not just estrogen that causes gyno .. There have been a lot of post about this so I thought is was worth discussing ..

Merc.

access · #3 (**permalink**) 05-02-2008, 08:15 AM

Good posts Merc and your quite correct about the role of estrogen. It is somewhat of a delicate balancing act between ensuring we keep moderate levels of estrogen while on cycle without contributing to gyno and at same time using an AI if necessary but not letting the estrogen levels drop too low. This then will cause your gains to be modest to negligible as in your buddies case. On the flip side too much estrogen can also have similar effects. There are also different estrogen metabolites within the body and bloodstream and they also have differing effects.

I also made mention in a recent post that fat cells are loaded with aromatase and this contributes to them storing larger quantities of estrogen. This is important to understand for anyone looking to do a cycle that has a high bodyfat percentage and why I always make a point to ask newbies in particular to lower their bodyfat before commencement of a cycle. If you don't and obviously are unaware of your body reponses to exogenous testosterone administration being a first cycle your asking for estrogen related problems. It is not ok to just take an AI to keep estrogen at bay as you then will severly limit your muscle growth.

Clearly as I made mention initally it is all a balancing act but a very important one at that to ensure maximum potential to gains and limiting sides associated with estrogen.

johnanthonyhome · #4 (**permalink**) 05-02-2008, 12:58 PM

Bloat is good!!!!! Who cares about a little est-bloat if its helping whats going on underneath. The most important macronutrient is water. If there is more water in the cell- then more chemical reactions can take place. as long as the BALANCE is tipped towards test, then all is well.

Merc. · #5 (**permalink**) 05-02-2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by access

Good posts Merc and your quite correct about the role of estrogen. It is somewhat of a delicate balancing act between ensuring we keep moderate levels of estrogen while on cycle without contributing to gyno and at same time using an AI if necessary but not letting the estrogen levels drop too low. This then will cause your gains to be modest to negligible as in your buddies case. On the flip side too much estrogen can also have similar effects. There are also different estrogen metabolites within the body and bloodstream and they also have differing effects.

I also made mention in a recent post that fat cells are loaded with aromatase and this contributes to them storing larger quantities of estrogen. This is important to understand for anyone looking to do a cycle that has a high bodyfat percentage and why I always make a point to ask newbies in particular to lower their bodyfat before commencement of a cycle. If you don't and obviously are unaware of your body reponses to endogenous testosterone administration being a first cycle your asking for estrogen related problems. It is not ok to just take an AI to keep estrogen at bay as you then will severly limit your muscle growth.

Clearly as I made mention initally it is all a balancing act but a very important one at that to esnure maximum potential to gains and limiting sides associated with estrogen.

Thanks Access..

You make some good points about fat cells and aromatase ..

Merc.

MrV · #6 (**permalink**) 05-02-2008, 06:16 PM

yeah, good info on the 'fat cells,' access.. i've seen it posted a million times to lower bf as much as possible.. but i've never seen posted the actual reason for it in relation to aromatase..