Type I and type II Ai's with nolva "reduced blood plasma levels"

[Merc.]

Here is a study that shows that nolva reduces the blood plasma levels of type II AI's..


Interactions of antioestrogens and aromatase inhibitors.

Schmid P, Possinger K

Department of Oncology and Hematology, Charite Campus Mitte, Humboldt University Berlin, Germany.

Aromatase inhibitors and antioestrogens have shown substantial activity in primary and advanced breast cancer. Since they exhibit different modes of action, attempts have been made to combine them or to use them sequentially in order to potentially increase their efficacy. In preclinical studies, combined, sequential or alternating treatments with aromatase inhibitors and antioestrogens have failed to provide higher antitumoural activity. There are relevant pharmacokinetic interactions resulting in decreased plasma concentrations of third generation aromatase inhibitors when combined with tamoxifen. Several randomised clinical trials comparing single agent and combined treatment with tamoxifen and aminoglutethimide failed to show any benefit for the combination. Early results of the adjuvant ATAC trial indicate that single agent anastrozole is superior to tamoxifen or the combination of both. Several trials are ongoing which might help to further define the role of sequential or combined treatment with aromatase inhibitors and antioestrogens. However, to date, looking at the current evidence, combined treatment with aromatase inhibitors and antioestrogens does not appear to provide additional benefit compared to single agent treatment.( End study)....


That study is very interesting... It is also why Anthony Roberts uses aromasin in his pct protocol..

You see aromasin -a type I AI - doesn't need to be present to continue doing its job on the aromatase enzyme ...

A type II AI which is partially eliminated by nolva - and unfortunately needs to be present to continue its aromatase inhibition.. Once a type I AI does its job the enzyme its attached to is useless.. So nolva can reduce the blood plasma levels of letro , adex ( type II ai's)....


Merc.

[Merc.]

Bump for feedback ??


Merc.

[fcpcjc]

Hmm.. I'd like to see the "several other trials" they mention. interesting..

[daredevil]

Originally Posted by Merc.

That study is very interesting... It is also why Anthony Roberts uses aromasin in his pct protocol..

once aromasin does its job the enzyme its attached to is useless

It permanently binds to the aromatase enzyme so it cannot bind to free test. Raises natty test in pct way higher than most protocols. Btw who uses clomid anymore?

Probably don't want to use aromasin outside of pct because of the massive amount of estrogen that is suppressed, it may take away from gains on cycle.

[anthony roberts]

Originally Posted by daredevil

It permanently binds to the aromatase enzyme so it cannot bind to free test. Raises natty test in pct way higher than most protocols. Btw who uses clomid anymore?

Probably don't want to use aromasin outside of pct because of the massive amount of estrogen that is suppressed, it may take away from gains on cycle.

Dr.Scally uses Clomid + Nolv +HCG. Almost any PCT will work to varying degrees, but I feel like mine is the most aggressive one out there...most people run monster cycles now, so I wrote a monster PCT.

[Merc.]

Originally Posted by daredevil

It permanently binds to the aromatase enzyme so it cannot bind to free test. Raises natty test in pct way higher than most protocols. Btw who uses clomid anymore?

Probably don't want to use aromasin outside of pct because of the massive amount of estrogen that is suppressed, it may take away from gains on cycle.

Have you read my article about Ai's effecting gains ??

Estrogen and AI's will it effect your gains ??

Merc.

[Mr.X]

Originally Posted by anthony roberts

Dr.Scally uses Clomid + Nolv +HCG. Almost any PCT will work to varying degrees, but I feel like mine is the most aggressive one out there...most people run monster cycles now, so I wrote a monster PCT.

I like to add some HGH and light Arimidex or Aromasin in the first 2 weeks of the PCT. But always Clomid+Nolva+HCG is in the base.

[access]

It is difficult to argue against clinical trial evidence as outlined here. There is also a 100 month follow up to this initial trial published earlier this year which basically continues to agree with the intial findings from the ATAC trial.

Clearly the inclusion of Aromasin over Arimidex or Letro in PCT when running Nolva is the better way to go as your getting maximum bang for your buck so to speak. Aromasin will clearly be more effective than the other AI's in this instance.

The Clomid+Nolva+HCG recovery cycle has been run by endocrinologists forever and it works but I think with what we know these days it is becoming outdated, well that's probably not the best terminology but I think we now have better options available. Personally I would go with HCG on cycle and Aromasin+Nolva+IGF for PCT. We know from Merc's initial post that Aromasin is going to be our best bet for the AI in conjunction with Nolva on PCT so this is a given. Nolva also does have an effect on IGF levels and this is in the negative. It will lower IGF and this is one reason why I always advocate only 20mgs/day of Nolva. The lower we keep our dose of Nolva the less effect on our IGF levels and also studies show that anything over 20mgs has little to no positive impact anyways.

[Merc.]

Originally Posted by access

It is difficult to argue against clinical trial evidence as outlined here. There is also a 100 month follow up to this initial trial published earlier this year which basically continues to agree with the intial findings from the ATAC trial.

Clearly the inclusion of Aromasin over Arimidex or Letro in PCT when running Nolva is the better way to go as your getting maximum bang for your buck so to speak. Aromasin will clearly be more effective than the other AI's in this instance.

The Clomid+Nolva+HCG recovery cycle has been run by endocrinologists forever and it works but I think with what we know these days it is becoming outdated, well that's probably not the best terminology but I think we now have better options available. Personally I would go with HCG on cycle and Aromasin+Nolva+IGF for PCT. We know from Merc's initial post that Aromasin is going to be our best bet for the AI in conjunction with Nolva on PCT so this is a given. Nolva also does have an effect on IGF levels and this is in the negative. It will lower IGF and this is one reason why I always advocate only 20mgs/day of Nolva. The lower we keep our dose of Nolva the less effect on our IGF levels and also studies show that anything over 20mgs has little to no positive impact anyways.

Good post Access..


Merc.