Sides and cycle length

[ViennaOak]

I read DaKilla's post that he is on his 23rd week of test e... just out of curiousity to any who have done longer cycles, what are the physical, psychological, and other sides that are different in a 10 weeker vs a 15 or 20 weeker? I'm basically talking straight test cycles.

What happens in those extra 5-10 weeks that make most people stick to standard 10-12 weekers? Is it really that much tougher on the body and recovery?

Thx

-VO

[bodyscience]

Some people can tolerate longer cycles because their body chemistry and immune system function differently but it is usually playing with your health.

Sudden increase in body mass poses serious health risk the same if you are obese sudden loss of body mass can be fatal. In other words take it easy if you want to live longer.


You have those cycles posted all over the place they are for most healthy people. There are a lot of data studies done by various scientists, doctors and this is what you should stick to if you meet all the criteria for completing the cycle (good health etc.).

I met one guy in gym, he went very long cycle, and after a couple of months he went to the doctor complaining about some problems they found that he needs new kidney.

[paramuscle]

A lot of people suggest that you need the down time to get the receptors cleaned out from longer cycles and that you won't respond as well for prolonged periods of time and they may be right but the main thing about this entire thing we do is that you have to take the advice of the people who have been there and done that (so to speak) and eventually you will find what works best for you and for your body.

Just as some people respond to different workouts and diet techniques, they also respond to different chemicals and durations of those chemicals. Some people get sides and some do not. I have run several cycles that were longer than standard and I have had great results with the proper pct and I will continue to do them but again, they are not for everyone and should be only approached by those people with sufficient knowledge to do so.

Problem with this is that people get too excited and they think that the longer the cycle and the heavier the doses and the more complex the drug combinations, means more gains . And, while it may work for some and to an extent, it is certainly not directly proportionate. In other words, if you take 500 mg/wk of test for 12 weeks and gain 15 pounds, increasing the dose to 1gram and the cycle length does not mean that you will gain 30 pounds. This has to be done in moderation and especially for beginners because you don't know the long term effects that these drugs will have on the body a d the truth is, no one really does.

As for the question, I have run several cycles that stretched out longer than normal and I s far as sides, I have more hair on my body than I used to and I get hard if the wind blows. That's about it for me but again, the education is even more crucial when you step out of the normal ranges and should only be done by people who truly understand the drug, and there body's response.



~PM

[paramuscle]

Originally Posted by bodyscience

Sudden increase in body mass poses serious health risk the same if you are obese sudden loss of body mass can be fatal.

Could you be more specific ? I am interested in hearing more about this.

Originally Posted by bodyscience

I met one guy in gym, he went very long cycle, and after a couple of months he went to the doctor complaining about some problems they found that he needs new kidney.

The problem with particular statement is the same one that plagues the steroid culture in general, once you start using steroids.............every malady you have will be attributed to those steroids. We have no way of knowing whether or not he had a completely healthy liver to start with or if he had some undiagnosed problem that was worsened by the drugs. Also, we don't know what kind of drugs and the duration and whether this "guy" even knew what he was doing and if he did them the correct way.

It's just something to think about because this is the same attitude that popular media and the general health care industry have placed on steroids.





~PM

[daredevil]

Good post. ^^^

[bodyscience]

Originally Posted by paramuscle

Could you be more specific ? I am interested in hearing more about this.

There was a girl recently in Germany I cannot remember 300 lbs when on some drugs lost 150 lbs in 4 weeks, or something, I do not remeber exactly the number, the body could not take the stress and simply got multiply organ failure.

The same with sudden body mass increase, this is why you should do this in moderation, I mean over the average, let's say 50 lbs in 4 weeks or something.

Originally Posted by paramuscle

The problem with particular statement is the same one that plagues the steroid culture in general, once you start using steroids.............every malady you have will be attributed to those steroids. We have no way of knowing whether or not he had a completely healthy liver to start with or if he had some undiagnosed problem that was worsened by the drugs. Also, we don't know what kind of drugs and the duration and whether this "guy" even knew what he was doing and if he did them the correct way.

It's just something to think about because this is the same attitude that popular media and the general health care industry have placed on steroids.


~PM

You did not read carefully the guy was not steroid user but abuser went far over the board and had organ failure. It has nothing to do with any culture.

[paramuscle]

Frankly, it isn't that I didn't read it carefully but rather that you need to learn how to type and articulate your thoughts better. I copied what you said and saying it was ambiguous would be a compliment.

Secondly, I have never heard of anyone gaining 50 pounds in 4 weeks or anything even remotely close to that and I know of no drugs that would work. There are plenty of people that go through gastric bypass and other forms of extreme weight loss every day in the world and you just posted something that sounds like a rabbit you pulled out of a hat. I was simply asking for clarification on your post that was very unclear.

I have read several studies on this particular subject of which you speak and none of them have been conclusive. The majority of the people that have died after a radical weight loss surgery, have died from complications that can occur with any surgery and they are not specific to the particular TYPE of surgery. If you have information that is pertinent, I would like to hear it but being so trivial and somewhat defensive is inappropriate.





~PM

[ViennaOak]

Originally Posted by paramuscle

Frankly, it isn't that I didn't read it carefully but rather that you need to learn how to type and articulate your thoughts better. I copied what you said and saying it was ambiguous would be a compliment.

Secondly, I have never heard of anyone gaining 50 pounds in 4 weeks or anything even remotely close to that and I know of no drugs that would work. There are plenty of people that go through gastric bypass and other forms of extreme weight loss every day in the world and you just posted something that sounds like a rabbit you pulled out of a hat. I was simply asking for clarification on your post that was very unclear.

I have read several studies on this particular subject of which you speak and none of them have been conclusive. The majority of the people that have died after a radical weight loss surgery, have died from complications that can occur with any surgery and they are not specific to the particular TYPE of surgery. If you have information that is pertinent, I would like to hear it but being so trivial and somewhat defensive is inappropriate.





~PM

I agree, these people who attribute every ill to steroid use are plain wrong. It is a major problem with the media.

For my purposes, 50 lb in 4 weeks... lol... isn't gonna happen because I am going to be eating below maintenance for a show. I just wanted to know if there was really any difference starting a cycle 14, 12, or even 10 weeks out ... if the extra 2-4 weeks really made that much of a difference.

-VO

[bodyscience]

Originally Posted by paramuscle

Frankly, it isn't that I didn't read it carefully but rather that you need to learn how to type and articulate your thoughts better. I copied what you said and saying it was ambiguous would be a compliment.

Secondly, I have never heard of anyone gaining 50 pounds in 4 weeks or



~PM

PM! he asked about long heavy cycles so we are talking here about extremes, sometimes I do not double check what I wrote and maybe my thought is not so clear

take a look here

Sudden death associated with very low calorie weight reduction regimens -- Sours et al. 34 (4): 453 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition

I cannot get all articles but believe me my sudden weight gain might be also lethal if you went too fast, I mean extreme. Maybe not 50 lbs in month, I do not have any data with me just I gave example what I mean by extreme. I am not talking here normal cycle.

You put a lot of stress on your organs and they simply fail one by one if you went too fast. Ask your doctor and let me know what he said

And there is the German girl who lost weigth too fast and died, it was in the media not long ago.

I think that you misunderstood me not for the first time; I will try being more specific next time with bunch of data and examples from various sources. .

[paramuscle]

What you are talking about is basically a starvation diet. Of course if you don't take in enough calories and nutrients to sustain life you will die and that SHOULD be common sense knowledge.

As far as the other stuff, I am not responding any further. The posts were generic and very poor in terms of information and I was asking for clarification. If you write clearly and make your intention known, that won't happen.



~PM