Help with first Cycle- Advice needed!

[cw2005]

Please help! I'll truly appreciate all the help I can get and will post before and after pics if requested.

I'm planning to do my first cycle soon (January). I know it's months off, but I want to make sure my planning is right.

In order, my goals are to:
(1) Keep all of my hair
(2) Not develop gynomastia
(3) Not crash like a car wreck
(4) Gain as much weight as possible

My info:
31 yrs old
6'1"
165 lbs
I've been lifting since high school and I've grown stronger. I've never gained weight though. When I really push the protien diet (200g a day across 6 meals). I never weigh more than 170 (I'm rail thin). I play basketball, but even when I cut that out, my weight is unaffected (we're all hard gainers in my family).

I'm going to spend a few months with a girlfriend in Puebla Mexico, so I shouldn't have trouble getting anything I need right?

My plan (before your feedback):
(Weeks 1-8)
Sustenon 250 each Monday and Thursday
Novaldex 10mg daily

week (9)
Novaldex 10mg daily
Proviron 25mg daily
Clomid 100 mg daily

weeks (10-12)
Novaldex 10mg daily
Proviron 25mg daily
Clomid 50 mg daily

Should I be using clenbuterol?

Do you have any particular suggestions lifting routine? As a hard gainer, will I do better to stop playing basketball (twice a week 40 minutes)?

What about Remeron?

[Floridagrowin]

There is more to nutrition than just getting the protein up. You really need to know what your caloric requirements are and base your diet around that. If you take on say 500-1000 calories per day more than you need to sustain your current size then you will grow guaranteed. Now what you eat and when will make a huge difference in what that new growth looks like.

IMO when you decide to run a cycle you should use either test cypionate or enanthate and run it for 10 weeks. Sustanon isn't a bad choice but some experience injection site pain more frequently with it opposed to other tests.

You would be better to use arimidex instead of nolvadex during cycle. .25mg EOD is a good starting point. Your pct is too short and is starting too early. You will need to wait two weeks after your last shot of test before you start pct. I would add two more weeks to the pct.

You do not want to use clen. It isn't a steroid and will not cause muscle growth. It will actually do the opposite.

Get the diet in check before you jump on a cycle.

[Floridagrowin]

Here, check out this thread. It will save a lot of typing.
1st CYCLE

[hazcat]

remeron? Isn't that an anti-depressant? I remember telling the doc I couldn't get to sleep and he gave me that and I didn't wake up for two days. It doesn't really have any effect with your cycle.

[Chancy]

Post up your diet in detail broi. Im betting we can really help you out on the food part of it. There no sense in doing a cycle with the same food your eating now. Any gains will be lost as soon as your off. Good luck

[JsArrow]

It looks like you've got more PCT than actual cycle here. FloGro is right I would suggest running:

weeks 1-4 Anadrol 20-30mg EOD
weeks 1-10 Test E 500mg weekly (i.e. mon, thr)

The rest of your PCT seems on the heavy side, but you seem to have a handle on it.

There is absolutely no reason to stop playing Basketball, exercise is never going to hurt you. I think the most important thing for you is going to be your diet. The anadrol is really going to spike your hunger along with the Test. Post your diet and let chancy or some of the rest of us help with your caloric and nutritional details. What you will be eating is going to be the most important part of this process if you want to gain 15 - 20 lbs of sustainable muscle.
Cheers mate.

[Chancy]

Originally Posted by JsArrow

It looks like you've got more PCT than actual cycle here. FloGro is right I would suggest running:

weeks 1-4 Anadrol 20-30mg EOD
weeks 1-10 Test E 500mg weekly (i.e. mon, thr)

The rest of your PCT seems on the heavy side, but you seem to have a handle on it.

There is absolutely no reason to stop playing Basketball, exercise is never going to hurt you. I think the most important thing for you is going to be your diet. The anadrol is really going to spike your hunger along with the Test. Post your diet and let chancy or some of the rest of us help with your caloric and nutritional details. What you will be eating is going to be the most important part of this process if you want to gain 15 - 20 lbs of sustainable muscle.
Cheers mate.

Theres no way i would ever recommend androl in a first cycle. If you want to gain more , eat more. Id say go test only. If you just had to add something in with the test, id recommend dbol over drol.

[BigEz]

Originally Posted by Chancy

Theres no way i would ever recommend androl in a first cycle. If you want to gain more , eat more. Id say go test only. If you just had to add something in with the test, id recommend dbol over drol.

x2.....I'm a big believer in frontloading even on 1st cycles. a dbol frontload is easy and you'll get lots of growth if stacked with Test E or C. I'd shy away from sust on a first cycle since it requires more frequent injections to get the most out of it.
Also, 8 weeks is def too short for a sust cycle, unless of course you frontload and shoot it EOD. I don't advise that for a first cycle.

If you want to stay lean, you could use clen during the cycle, but prob best used during the latter weeks. The clen is good because it's anticatabolic so it won't eat away at your muscle.

As for ancillaries, you should heavily consider running HCG during the cycle so you can keep your gains. Also, run an AI like FLorida suggested instead of novla during the cycle. Since this is a beginner cycle (but still a good with a lot of growth potential) nolva is really all you need for pct. The proviron has limited anti-estrogen effects so it really isn't a true pct drug. Since you're already lean by nature, the proviron won't really do much for you since most guys use it to dry out and get a hardened look toward the end of cycles. The adex will keep you dry enough during the cycle.

Good luck.

[cw2005]

Above all, let me say: Thank you to everyone for the input! The internet is a wonderful thing!

I agree with everyone's comments on diet. When I go all out and push my diet the additional 1000+ calories a day, I do gain. Never much more than 5 pounds though. I've had several BB friends (who I can frequently lift more than)- get me on their diets and I find l that I always plateau just under 170 (in the morning after evacuating...).

Typical diet is to eat about once every four hours (5 to 6 meals a day) a 40g protien meal.
Snack/morning meals (2x):
oatmeal, 2 eggs, 30g whey protien

Daytime meals(3x-4x):
Mostly chicken breast (1/2 pound) w/ pasta, potatoes, or vegatbles-- Otherwise the same with 1/2 pound of steak.

Invariably I have a caesine protien shake before bed -it makes a huge difference!

After many years in my body, I question how any more intake than this could be beneficial. I think it just stops up my intestines and reduces the quality of my training.

Apart from pain is there any drawbacks to Sus 250? Given that I plan to end at 8 weeks, shouldn't the slow esters ease me off gradually, thus reducing the crash effect.

So some say the PCT is too long and others that it is too short. Why armidex instead of nolvadex? Isn't armidex far more expensive? Armidex reduces estrogen while nolvadex simply blocks it- From that perspective, nolvadex seems to promote more balance. On the other hand Armidex is said to stimulate testosterone in hypergonadanals. . . It's really not clear to me. And what about HCG? It sounds expensive. How would I incorporate it? Should I just get it if I notice my balls have shriveled up?



A new question: If I have evidence that my PCT is going badly, how can I find a doc to help that will respect my privacy? Will the doctors at "aging clicnics help?"

Each time I post, I'll update:


My plan (given feedback so far):
Weeks (1-2)
Anadrol (or Dianabol) 20-30mg EOD

Weeks (1-8)
Sustenon 250 each Monday and Thursday (ie 500mg/w)
Novaldex 10mg daily

week (9)
Novaldex 10mg daily
Proviron 25mg daily
Clomid 100 mg daily

weeks (10-12)
Novaldex 10mg daily
Clomid 50 mg daily

[Floridagrowin]

Originally Posted by cw2005

Above all, let me say: Thank you to everyone for the input! The internet is a wonderful thing!

I agree with everyone's comments on diet. When I go all out and push my diet the additional 1000+ calories a day, I do gain. Never much more than 5 pounds though. I've had several BB friends (who I can frequently lift more than)- get me on their diets and I find l that I always plateau just under 170 (in the morning after evacuating...).

One reason you could be reaching a plateau is you're not increasing you calories when you gain. You will have to adjust your diet to meet the needs of your new growth. Also this is a long term thing and you have to be consistant.

Typical diet is to eat about once every four hours (5 to 6 meals a day) a 40g protien meal.
I wouldn't go longer than 3 hours between meals. That will also allow for an additional meal or shake during the day. You always want to eat or do a shake post workout. Try to do it within 20 minutes of the workout and also take on some simple carbs at that time to help regain normal insulin levels.

Snack/morning meals (2x):
oatmeal, 2 eggs, 30g whey protien

Daytime meals(3x-4x):
Mostly chicken breast (1/2 pound) w/ pasta, potatoes, or vegatbles-- Otherwise the same with 1/2 pound of steak.

Invariably I have a caesine protien shake before bed -it makes a huge difference!

After many years in my body, I question how any more intake than this could be beneficial. I think it just stops up my intestines and reduces the quality of my training.
You should shoot for about 1.5 to 2g of protein per pound of body weight. Anything more than that you will not digest and could actually cause some kidney function issues. Typically if you eat whole foods consisting of meat, fish or chicken you will cover your protein needs. Keeping track of what you eat is extremely helpful. You need to know the nutritional values of the foods and weights so you can calculate calories, protein and carbs for the correct proportions.

Apart from pain is there any drawbacks to Sus 250? Given that I plan to end at 8 weeks, shouldn't the slow esters ease me off gradually, thus reducing the crash effect.
There are differing views on how sustanon should be run. My opinion is that is needs to be run at least every three days to get the benefit of all the different length esters. Some will say 2x per week and othe EOD. Here is a thread Haz started about sustanon Let's talk about sustanon / Everyone post at least once on here

So some say the PCT is too long and others that it is too short. Why armidex instead of nolvadex? Isn't armidex far more expensive? Armidex reduces estrogen while nolvadex simply blocks it- From that perspective, nolvadex seems to promote more balance. On the other hand Armidex is said to stimulate testosterone in hypergonadanals. . . It's really not clear to me. And what about HCG? It sounds expensive. How would I incorporate it? Should I just get it if I notice my balls have shriveled up?

IMO pct should be 5 weeks using lower doses of nolva and clomid or just one of the compounds. Starting at a higher dose for the first couple weeks then a lower dose for 3 weeks. If you skimp on pct you are risking losing your gains. For the few extra bucks it cheap insurance. Adex is more effective than nolva at preventive gyno and reducing estrogen. It dose cost more but it takes less so it equals out. You would need to do a minimum of 10mg per day of nolva and you can probably get away with .25mg EOD of adex. Nolva prevents the binding of estrogen to the ER and adex prevents test from converting into estrogen depending on dose. HCG can be used during cycle to prevent testicular atrophy and other benefits. Here is the profile Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) HCG isn't expensive in the big scheme of things. Dose during cycle at 250IU's 2x per week is typicall. There are numerous post about it if you look through them.

A new question: If I have evidence that my PCT is going badly, how can I find a doc to help that will respect my privacy? Will the doctors at "aging clicnics help?"

Good luck with that.
Each time I post, I'll update:


My plan (given feedback so far):
Weeks (1-2)
Anadrol (or Dianabol) 20-30mg EOD

Weeks (1-8)
Sustenon 250 each Monday and Thursday (ie 500mg/w)
Novaldex 10mg daily

week (9)
Novaldex 10mg daily
Proviron 25mg daily
Clomid 100 mg daily

weeks (10-12)
Novaldex 10mg daily
Clomid 50 mg daily

I still say to add two weeks to the pct and again you are starting it too early. You need to wait two weeks after your last shot of before you start. You cannot recover normal test production with synthetic test in your body so wk 9 and 10 are a waste when it comes to that. Now running an AI during the time between cycle and pct is a good idea as your estrogen will climb as your test drops otherwise. You will need to start pct at the end of week 10 or beginning of week 11 and run it 5 weeks. You could run the two extra weeks at 25mg of clomid and 10mg of nolva.