Just in case you think it's ok for the government to track your calls

[Reverend Satan]

Originally Posted by Lowpro

I see everyone is concerned about there phone bill being turned over. Very understandable.

Did you read the article? It has to do with a little more than people's phone bills.

Originally Posted by Lowpro

Basically, it boils down to statisitics and (since I work in the intelligence community) I can state this: if and when a known or suspected terrorist is caught, every single US call they made in the past 10 years will be brought to light.

This, is how the intell is suppose to be use. Granted, no one really knows. All we have are clever conspiracy theories and the word of the big bad government. That's life.

No. We have members from intelligence agencies stepping forward and telling us what is going on. It isn't conspiracy. We also have a President who answers every question regarding this issue by saying "Yeah, I have the power to do that...next question."

Originally Posted by Lowpro

Now, if no one here actually shreds their mail, they have no leg to stand on. Once you throw your trach away and it ends up in a dump somewhere, it becomes public property or at the very least - the property of the person who owns the land. So, trash your phone bill and your bank statements like you normally do and then look in the mirror.

Who mentioned phone bills or bank statements? Again, did you read the article? I'm talking about government invasion of privacy on an increasing scale. I'm talking about the government abusing it's power in order to intimidate those who are supposed to help keep it honest.

Originally Posted by Lowpro

If you truly think the government is tracking your particular phone calls, you're thinking highly of yourself. If you're a mobster, major drug player, terrorist, or big-time criminal, you should be terrified of subjects like the Patriot Act.

I am terrified of the Patriot Act. Mostly because people like you said it was just about catching terrorists. It wasn't and most people who didn't believe that are starting to see the truth. It was a backdoor scam to increase the administration's power and it worked. I won't mention the irony of a guy on a steroid board mentioning the Patriot Act.

Originally Posted by Lowpro

The database they are collecting is incredible HUGE. Your phone call history doesn't belong to you; it belongs to the phone company. If you want to *****, call your provider - they don't have to release it. It's like hotmail releasing your email addy to spammers; obviously, just not quite as serious.

I do not mind if my emails, online behavoir or phone calls are placed in some major databse. Guess what, that's been happening once you signed on for the very first time. I have nothing to hide and nothing that scared is these areas. If this collelction of data actually stops just one terrorist - it's worth it to me. Now, this is my opinion now and only my opinion.

You forgot to mention about how things changed after 9/11. That's usually part of the response to people questioning this government's invasion of privacy.

Originally Posted by Lowpro

There is nothing that isn't accessable by the government - since most of these "private" issues are given to us by our government. The most important information that we poccess is issued and tracked by the government; your social security.

You seem all too content with the Orwellian sense of government. Contrary to your belief the government is supposed to get it's power from the people...not the other way around.

Originally Posted by Lowpro

Lastly, everyone wants to complain about this administration. It happens and it happens to EVERY administration. It only gets worse each time because our problematic issues become more paramount. That's called progression.

Bullshit. If you are attempting to convince us that this administration is ordinary or average when it comes to attempting to increase the scope of it's power then you are either not reading the papers or your name is Sean Hannity.

Originally Posted by Lowpro

Plus, there was a reason our fore fathers created the Constitution to be a living document. They knew back then that they didn't have all the answers. It must change to suit the needs of our time. For those of you who say, "**** that!" I can only assume you're still proslavery.

Actually, the Constitution left many issues to the States. Our Founding Fathers were sorta nervous about creating an all-powerful central government. You know, like the one they sailed across the Atlantic to escape or the one you seem to be supporting. Furthermore, I don't see the connection between freeing a race of people and the government using modern technology to root out people who speak out against it. One is progression the other is something else.

[Lowpro]

You can twist my words to fit your arguement all you want.

Also, you have no ideas about my beliefs. You cannot simply assume you know someone's beliefs on any subject based upon a single post based on opinion.

I am terrified of the Patriot Act. Mostly because people like you said it was just about catching terrorists. It wasn't and most people who didn't believe that are starting to see the truth. It was a backdoor scam to increase the administration's power and it worked.

You're right, The PA had notohing to do with catching terroirist. It was soley used for watching people who speak out against the government. HAHA. Becareful folks, we're coming for you and we're going to build new prisions to lock up those who speak out against the government!

I won't mention the irony of a guy on a steroid board mentioning the Patriot Act.

Irony: The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.

The truth is you won't mention the irony because within my statement, it doesn't exist. I support the PA and so did congress. Congress and the senate supported everything this administration allocated. It wasn't until these things started becoming unpopular that a few right-wingers and all the left-wingers decided they were bamboozled.

This, is how the intell is suppose to be use. Granted, no one really knows. All we have are clever conspiracy theories and the word of the big bad government. That's life.

That was an open ended statement based upon more than just this little phone records argument.

We can sit here and ***** and complain about the government's abuse of power, but I hate to break it to you, that's been going on since day 1. EVERYONE abuses power and at all levels. Just because the word government is assoiciated we're supposed to believe there is no evil? When the abuse of power affects my day to day life, then I will begin to *****. Sorry, that's just how I live and I live well. I'm still pissed at the oil companies abuse of their power of demand.

Furthermore, I don't see the connection between freeing a race of people and the government using modern technology to root out people who speak out against it. One is progression the other is something else.

Again, you're taking something I said out of context. So, you think all this is about rooting out people who speak against the government? Are you serious? Please tell me you're joking. That, my friend, is another conspiracy theory that liberals use to scare the public into voting to the left. It's also the same great plot line for numerous B movies.

Bullshit. If you are attempting to convince us that this administration is ordinary or average when it comes to attempting to increase the scope of it's power then you are either not reading the papers or your name is Sean Hannity.

My research stems far beyond papers and what I read on the web. Actually, you couldn't possibly fathom what I've read, researched or how I've developed my opinions. Shall we actually get into the ugly and digress to every single administrations abuse of power? That's a debate no one wants to read.

You seem all too content with the Orwellian sense of government. Contrary to your belief the government is supposed to get it's power from the people...not the other way around.

Again, nice attempt to generalize my beliefs. Next you'll be telling me what GOD I worship.

Actually, the Constitution left many issues to the States. Our Founding Fathers were sorta nervous about creating an all-powerful central government. You know, like the one they sailed across the Atlantic to escape or the one you seem to be supporting

The funny thing is, this all powerful governemnt you speak of actually has the ability to digress or progress every fours years based upon the people bringing others to power. Imagine that.

Next you'll be telling us how you still believe the government hit the Pentagon with a missle.

[Lowpro]

PS - no hard feelings folks, THis is politics and it's always heated. It's part of the game. When I debate or argue, I'm not making my statements out of haste. They simply defend my opinions and my arguments.


:loveyou

[Reverend Satan]

Originally Posted by Lowpro

You can twist my words to fit your arguement all you want.

Also, you have no ideas about my beliefs. You cannot simply assume you know someone's beliefs on any subject based upon a single post based on opinion.

Relax. I didn't twist your words.

Originally Posted by Lowpro

You're right, The PA had notohing to do with catching terroirist. It was soley used for watching people who speak out against the government. HAHA. Becareful folks, we're coming for you and we're going to build new prisions to lock up those who speak out against the government!

Speaking of twisting words. Where did I say the Patriot Act had nothing to do with catching terrorists? LOL

Originally Posted by Lowpro

Irony: The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.

The truth is you won't mention the irony because within my statement, it doesn't exist. I support the PA and so did congress. Congress and the senate supported everything this administration allocated. It wasn't until these things started becoming unpopular that a few right-wingers and all the left-wingers decided they were bamboozled.

Thanks for the definition. You're right, you didn't come out and say you support the Patriot Act you only implied it. Oh wait, you just said you support it in the above statement. Now if I have to explain the irony in that statement to you we had better start a separate thread.

Originally Posted by Lowpro

That was an open ended statement based upon more than just this little phone records argument.

We can sit here and ***** and complain about the government's abuse of power, but I hate to break it to you, that's been going on since day 1. EVERYONE abuses power and at all levels. Just because the word government is assoiciated we're supposed to believe there is no evil? When the abuse of power affects my day to day life, then I will begin to *****. Sorry, that's just how I live and I live well. I'm still pissed at the oil companies abuse of their power of demand.

Again, where did I say the this administration is the first to abuse it's power? I definitely think this administration has increased the scope of it's power more than previous administrations. BTW, Do you actually read what I type or the link I posted or are you locked in battle with a strawman?

Originally Posted by Lowpro

Again, you're taking something I said out of context. So, you think all this is about rooting out people who speak against the government? Are you serious? Please tell me you're joking. That, my friend, is another conspiracy theory that liberals use to scare the public into voting to the left. It's also the same great plot line for numerous B movies.

The article is about nothing other than the government rooting out sources used by the Press. I was trying to demonstrate to people that think a little thing like tracking phone numbers can be abused. I won't respond to you if don't read the damn article or at least skim it. LOL

Originally Posted by Lowpro

My research stems far beyond papers and what I read on the web. Actually, you couldn't possibly fathom what I've read, researched or how I've developed my opinions. Shall we actually get into the ugly and digress to every single administrations abuse of power? That's a debate no one wants to read.

Ah, the old "I know stuff you don't know so don't make me go there" argument. It's one of my favorites. If you want to start presenting all your research I'll do my best to "fathom" it but go easy on me.

Originally Posted by Lowpro

Again, nice attempt to generalize my beliefs. Next you'll be telling me what GOD I worship.

If you believe in any god you're wrong so I really don't care.

Originally Posted by Lowpro

The funny thing is, this all powerful governemnt you speak of actually has the ability to digress or progress every fours years based upon the people bringing others to power. Imagine that.

Next you'll be telling us how you still believe the government hit the Pentagon with a missle.

Again, it's nice how you repeatedly accuse me of twisting your words yet that's basically all you've done. Go get that online dictionary of yours and look up "hypocrisy." Don't bother posting the definition, just keep it in your memory bank.

[Twistdenigma]

This thread is heading south, lol.