Immigration bill advance to the senate and..

[Gator_Mclusky]

Originally Posted by Adam F

Actually this is a true story http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1999/...ain59160.shtml

Interesting. The Mexicans around here are for the most part hard working people that work all day and drink beer all evening and keep to themselves.

[access]

Firstly as I have already stated I believe there is no easy fix to illegal immigration and you can make all the sweeping generalties you want about how easy it would be but their just not factual. I am not in support of illegal immigration by any means but am certainly interested in the dilemma it causes.

They estimate (and I think conservatively) there are 15,000,000 illegals in the US. That to me is incredible in itself seeing as I come from a country (Australia) where our population is only 20,000,000 to begin with.

One of the main problems I see as I alluded to earlier is that it is US companies that are employing these illegals. Be it with forged documents or not a large portion of the blame has to lie with them. If there were no jobs to come to I am sure the decision to come would be no where near as attractive. I mean America is built on generations of immigration (both legal and illegal) who left their home countries (these days mostly Mexico, Central and South America) becuase they lived in mostly appalling conditions dealing with poverty and unemployment. For the most part all they are wanting to do is provide for their families.

I have also read that illegals pay app. $7 billion a year into the Social Security coffers and obviously never see any benefit from that. The Social Security administaration is bordering on insolvency or at least has been in recent times and if you were take that type of money out of it then there would be a crisis.

Putting up $2 fences every few miles, increasing border protection etc just will not stop illegals entering this country while poverty-stricken, racist and corrupt conditions exist in their homeland (Mexico et al) and US companies willing to employ them exist. That I am fairly sure of so again I say what is the answer? I don't know that's for certain.

Flame suit ON.

[access]

I see the senate today canned this bill by the way.

[Mr.X]

Originally Posted by CHIQUITITA

This is a little off topic, but why is'nt there much being done on penalizing American corporations who outsource high paying jobs for cheaper labor? I think if there is a raping of our American economy are these big corporations who pay for cheap labor over-seas or just across the boarder and price gouge hard working American citizens for whatever service product they supply. We get screwed coming and going! Just my opinion... even if it does'nt make sense.

you're confusing services and goods, intangible and tangible industries...most, if not all, job filled by illegals are in the goods industry with a minority in the service industry. Many of these jobs (99%) cannot be outsources; on the other hand, it's the law of economics, a country does what it does best and let's other countries do what they do best, facilitating trade. Sending a call center to india is nothing that's going to blow up the US economy, because those are somewhat skilled jobs (to a degree); what the US economy needs is to fill unskilled (semi-skilled) goods labor with LEGAL immigrants who are already in the USA.

Remember, if a TV was made in the USA it would cost you $2000, made in china $200; you have to take in the good with the bad. US has to become a world leader in new innovative technology and retrain the workforce. Aka pharmaceuticals, IT and so on... I mean US is already lagging as one of the worst off in new engineering graduates in the 1st world. China has more engineers coming out of school then the US. The problem is multi-fold. Politics are dictating immigration policy, instead of reality.

Give illegals an ID? drivers license? WTF! NO you deport them as soon as the leech in for free medical or ANY Other services. Penalize any company who hire illegals so heavy that it will no be worth it.

But, oh no...politicians are scared that wetbacks will be the majority in 2010-2020, so let's suck the american economy into oblivion to let this criminals live in the states.


Don't take this the wrong way of course... I'm 110% for LEGAL immigration, I think it's good for the USA. But ****! get in line , learn the bill or rights and the presidents. Don't border hop and rip off the system.

[Mr.X]

Originally Posted by access

I have also read that illegals pay app. $7 billion a year into the Social Security coffers and obviously never see any benefit from that. The Social Security administaration is bordering on insolvency or at least has been in recent times and if you were take that type of money out of it then there would be a crisis.

incorrect to a degree; this is a common misunderstanding by the public. It is estimated that the average hispanic family will have 4-8 children while in the USA. Meaning, by 2010-2015, as the majority of the population, they will actually have the largest amount of benefits going to them. From my understanding, the worry is no so much babyboomers anymore, it's mexicans having 20 kids per family who are US CITIZENS! For every $1 they put into the economy they suck out $25 direct and indirect.

Originally Posted by access

Putting up $2 fences every few miles, increasing border protection etc just will not stop illegals entering this country while poverty-stricken, racist and corrupt conditions exist in their homeland (Mexico et al) and US companies willing to employ them exist. That I am fairly sure of so again I say what is the answer? I don't know that's for certain.

Flame suit ON.

putting a fence accross the WHOLE border
increasing border security to 50,000 people (you heard me right)
arresting people, deporting people, penalizing companies who hire illegals
you'll see that 15,000,000 drop to 5,000,000 within 10 years

[access]

Originally Posted by Mr.X

putting a fence accross the WHOLE border
increasing border security to 50,000 people (you heard me right)
arresting people, deporting people, penalizing companies who hire illegals
you'll see that 15,000,000 drop to 5,000,000 within 10 years

I agree with you here that if those measures were taken we would see a drastic drop in illegal immigration BUT

I don't know if anyone watches Penn & Teller Bullshit on Showtime but they recently had a program devoted to illegal immigration. They actually hired 6 illegals to build a section of fence to the exact same specs as the proposed fences now being bulit in areas along the border. After completion of the fence they then had these guys broken into teams of 2. Each team was given an agenda of getting past the fence. 2 were to go under, 2 to go through and 2 to go over. It was like 30 seconds and the 2 to go under were through and only a few seconds more and the other team were through and finally within minutes the last team was over. So clearly a fence is of little true value and unless is considerably upgraded from that presently proposed. There is also something like 2,000 miles of border to fence so take into account a fence that would truly inhibit illegals and of that length I would hate to know the costs. That alone means that I expect no government will ever to come to finance it.

[Mr.X]

sorry I didn't make it clear, not like the arizona-mexico fence

more like the image #2 and better

I.e. I want to make it an ELECTRIC fence + dug about 500 feet INTO the ground, so underground fencing too.

10,000 v of electricity will stop them...

you want to talk about terrorism and "homeland security"? it's not in Iraq , it's right at the god damn Mexico border. Where it's well known that turban heads can bring over a nuke very easy.

[Mr.X]

p.s. that's a REAL picture of the arizona-mexico fence

[Mr.X]

this is the fence Israel is building to keep out the terrorists , and the parts built are already working
the Hamas and others have resorted to rocket attacks since it's too hard to get into Israel to suicide bomb now!

this is costing Israel about $1.6mil / mile, so let's make that $2mil/mile for an electric fence. (for USA)

The international border between the United States and Mexico: border's total length is 1,951 miles (3,141 km), according to figures given by the International Boundary and Water Commission

so, 1,951 x $2million = 3,902,000,000 or 3.9 billion dollars

so, let's see...war in Iraq 300-400 billion, secure the border 4 billion:argh

now you see the problem here?

[BIGFOOD]

Originally Posted by Gator_Mclusky

I made it to Boys Town...thank you!!!!

you got pics???? do share