hgh/igf1 and shoulder surgery recov

[mrcomfypants]

my first post

this is popular stuff. ive noticed theres a lot of vague info on this stuff so ill try and be as precise as i can...

6'7" 265 lbs 9% body fat


started taking hgh for 3 months to help with partial tear of shoulder.

month1 split 4 iu's into am/pm
month2 split 6 iu's into am/pm
month3 single 5 iu am (tried to get as many days out of what i had, also wanted to see if there was a difference between am and split dosages...all i noticed is i didnt sleep as deeply with only the am dosage which was fine with me because it sucked getting out of bed cuz it made me sleep really really well)

....shoulder surgery...maintained 5 iu's in the am for another month 6 days/week (4)

took a break from the stuff while i was working on flexibility (wow what a difference the stuff makes with recovery and cardio. body felt like poo compared to what it did for previous 4 months)

now im 235lbs 14% bodyfat...feel pretty weak and all around brutal

anyways ill be getting 400 iu hgh and an unknown amount of igf1 (dude said 3 months worth and its his first go-round with it too so ill just find out when i get it. regardless im assuming its enough to manipulate one optimum 4 week cycle of it past that i dont care because it didnt cost me near as much as the gh and can get more if needed)

ive got my insulin needles for the hgh and will be doing subq injections in the stomach in the am @ 5iu/day until i run out <=== unless you can tell me that i should use more for a shorter time period

1) i understand that i should inject the igf post workout with some simple sugars (coke/skittles/etc) correct or incorrect? what kind of gram amount of simple or complex carbs should i consume around injection time?
most of my meals are somewhere around the 800 calorie range 20%fat 40%carb 40%protein until evening to bedtime then i try to as lean as possible. typically 4 meals/day and 4 whey shakes/day@50grams

2) i should inject subq into the muscle group that was worked that day. but why? my concern is that i do an all upper body day and an all lower body day and i want the most benefit. this training split is unavoidable because im an athlete and right now i do as im told or i get fined. so chest/shoulders/tri/bi/back on one day, legs the next, core the next <==== where do i inject and what dosage would be optimal for my bodyweight?

3) what is the effective timeframe after i workout that i can take the igf? immediately, 30-hr, etc?

4) just read about the acetic stuff when preparing the igf. why cant i just use electrostatic water?

thanks for reading. alot of you guys are impressive as hell with your responses, i hope to get some of those.

-MCP

[hazcat]

I've never been a fan of IGF. I'm no expert on it but I do know of someone who is quite knowledgeable on peptides. I will post his thoughts on IGF and it will be much easier than me attempting to answer each of your questions. I think you'll find you don't want to run it pwo as it works against muscle growth and repair by negating your bodies natural recovery.

[hazcat]

This is from DatBtrue who if you read his posts can't help but impress. I take his opinion on peptides as gospel because he is far more experienced and well read than I.

Okay, if you have been reading me for years you would know I have a huge bias against IGF-1 and that instead of just being negative I dug up a lot of research concerning it over the last 18 months on PM and in my now deleted 2nd thread at AM and posted many different angles. I am my own best devils advocate.

My position has consistently been GH & the GHRH/GHRPs create all of the local IGF-1 & MGF that you will need in muscle and that when they go and draw blood plasma and measure circulating IGF-1 (i.e. endocrine liver-made) the reading is of limited value. What is important is IGF-1 and MGF actually created in muscle where it will be used. Currently they have no way to test that in a medical setting.

I believe I have pointed to GH & testosterone increasing local production of IGF-1 & MGF and that adding IGF-1 to this mix, at least in vitro completely abolished the increase.

I believe I have said that taking exogenous IGF-1 PWO was THE EXACT WRONG time to take it. IGF-1 will act to differentiate newly formed "cells", but what you want post-workout is the production or proliferation of undefined cells. MGF is expressed PWO naturally and it is responsible for proliferation. So adding IGF-1 right when MGF gets going cuts proliferation short.

Its like starting a battle by assigning weapons to the first 10 guys that show up and then mounting a charge. It is much better to sit and wait until 10 guys then 50 guys then 500 guys show up before assigning them duties and starting the battle. 500 guys always make a bigger impact then 10.

Back a year ago I talked about IGF-1 LR3 not staying local when injected unless it was prebound to the other two components of the tertiary complex (IGFBP3 + acid labile subunit +IGF-1).

I have spent some time w/ a guy named Clarity&Focus trying to see how much IGF-1 is lost because there is no Human or Bovine Serum Albumin added and because many IGF-1 sellers don't have the correct amount of buffer added which will work well when acetic acid is added. Instead often there is no buffer and acetic acid just degrades the peptide. We discovered that a significant maybe 40% of the IGF-1 was lost due to adhering to the glass of the vial. That is what HSA or BSA is for but since it s a blood product it is very difficult to obtain and ship across borders.

I have said a great deal about IGF-1 over the years... including the fact that the healing properties only require 1/300th of the dose needed to be systemically anabolic.

I think IGF-1 LR3 works extremely well for healing via injection near the injury (multiple times) or internally to heal the gastrointestinal tract... I have never been a big fan of IGF-1 anabolically.

Having said all of that I do have posts on trying to make IGF-1 at least have some measurable local activity. That is where the multi-dosing micro dosing protocol comes into play. In addition timing should be as far away from the workout event as possible in the muscle just worked. At night the night before a workout is a good time.

I gave up on IGF-1 for anabolism in my own body years ago in favor of GHRH/GHRPs.

[mrcomfypants]

thats cool...i appreciate the info. once i get everything set up ill post my plan and update with results as i go. any other info would be great. i wont start for another 2 weeks.

thanks
mcp