Weight training on a CKD

[Yo Daddy]

I have been doing some research and I'm really confused about the strategy behind depletion weight training on a ckd. Since the body is using liver glycogen/insulin levels to determine catabolic/anabolic status, why would you need to burn muscular glycogen in order to burn fat stores? I'm trying to figure out why you wouldn't utilize the little muscular glycogen you have stores (ckd) or dextrose supplemented (tkd) to build some lbm and then use the calorie deficit/cardio to utilize fat stores. Why wouldn't/couldn't this work?

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I just don't understand this methodology at all. Thanks in advance.

[Yung Wun]

in order to utilize fat a source you have to utilize carbs first, they bodies perferred fuel is glucose. you need to give your body reason to switch over to fat stores.

[Yo Daddy]

Originally Posted by Yung Wun

in order to utilize fat a source you have to utilize carbs first, they bodies perferred fuel is glucose. you need to give your body reason to switch over to fat stores.

A few things come to mind here:

1.) If this was true, it would be impossible to ever burn fat in an isocaloric diet b/c the muscular glycogen would constantly be refilled. The body is using fat stores b/c there is a deficit. Any deficit created within a ketogenic diet would automatically pull from fat stores in the same way, except b/c of the bodies stable/low insulin level, it would utilize fat stores for the vast majority of the deficit calorie amount.

2.) Because of the keto diet there is no glucose available to the body, only muscular glycogen, which would be utilized only during anaerobic activity. Why would the body need to burn through this in order to utilize the fat stores? Why would you want to have your anaerobic weight training pull from fat any way?

Bare with me... I'm trying to learn. Thanks for the time/explanations.

[StrappingYoungLad]

The body doesn't necessarily need glucose for fuel.It is perfectly capable of burning ketones to fuel your workouts or anything else.But it only does this in the absence of insulin,as explained previously.This is more muscle sparing than a diet containing carbs because on a carb diet,once glycogen is depleted your body tends to burn muscle because it's not really in "fat-burning mode" as it is after a few days of no carbs.A diet that is low calorie but not low carb will cause weight loss all right,if you like losing muscle.Muscle is 5x more metabolically active than any other tissue in your body,so in the face of a calorie deficit it's the first to go.When you are in ketosis there is no calorie deficit to speak of because you have plenty of fat both dietary and stored to draw from.

[StrappingYoungLad]

Originally Posted by Yo Daddy

2.) Because of the keto diet there is no glucose available to the body, only muscular glycogen.

Glycogen is converted to glucose before it can be used as fuel.Glucose=insulin=don't burn fat

[Yo Daddy]

Originally Posted by StrappingYoungLad

Glycogen is converted to glucose before it can be used as fuel.Glucose=insulin=don't burn fat

I was under the impression that it was the other way around.

What is Glycogen?
Glycogen is the body's main source of stored energy. Made from glucose (from excess carbs), glycogen is stored primarily in liver and muscle cells. It is stored with water, in the ratio 1 gram of carbohydrates to 3 grams of water.

Where is Glycogen Found in the Body?
Most glycogen is found in the liver (comprising about 10 percent of the liver), with muscles containing a relatively small amount. Liver-glycogen is more readily available for energy and blood glucose maintenance, while muscle-glycogen is used primarily for muscle-energy. A third glycogen location is the brain, where small amounts of glycogen are found in the glial cells.

Glucose to Glycogen
Glycogen is generated from glucose (a simple monosaccharide sugar) by the enzyme glycogen synthase. This process is called glycogenesis. The conversion of glucose to glycogen enables the body to 'park' extra carbohydrate calories, for future use.

[Twistdenigma]

Originally Posted by Yo Daddy

I was under the impression that it was the other way around.

It is. You're reading SYL's post and only looking at the first half of the process. You have food to eat, but you're not hungry so you put it in the freezer. Now it's nothing but frozen food. In order to eat it you have to take it out, thaw it and turn it back into food again, right? Same deal. The body needs glucose as fuel. You burn your glycogen stores, but the body doesn't really burn the glycogen. It first turns that glycogen back into glucose. Make sense?

[Yo Daddy]

Originally Posted by Twistdenigma

It is. You're reading SYL's post and only looking at the first half of the process. You have food to eat, but you're not hungry so you put it in the freezer. Now it's nothing but frozen food. In order to eat it you have to take it out, thaw it and turn it back into food again, right? Same deal. The body needs glucose as fuel. You burn your glycogen stores, but the body doesn't really burn the glycogen. It first turns that glycogen back into glucose. Make sense?

Not really... it seems like if this was true then every anaerobic activity would spike the insulin levels in our bodies and impact ketosis then. How would the concept of a depletion workout even be useful/viable?

[StrappingYoungLad]

if there is no glycogen how can there be insulin? That's the purpose of depleting glycogen stores.I don't understand what you're saying.

[Yo Daddy]

Originally Posted by StrappingYoungLad

if there is no glycogen how can there be insulin? That's the purpose of depleting glycogen stores.I don't understand what you're saying.

Haha... I think I've made this more complicated than it should be. Are there any books that discuss this indepth so I can have the whole concept in front of me (scientifically discussed, not just broken-up forum explanations)? You guys know way more than I do and I think it may take up a ton of space to really understand the whole process. Thanks fellas.