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Thread: Lump in the Bum

  1. #11
    Join Date
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    Default Let's start with prop

    [QUOTE=LeanMean;638765]Hello there fellas,

    1. Test Prop 1cc/Week
    2. Eq started at 1cc/week up to 4cc/week
    3. Deca 3-4cc/week
    4. Multivitamin injection, once a week
    5. Dbol started at 10mg/day up to 30mg/day and then decreasing back gradually.
    6. Nolvadex

    1cc a week dosed at 100mg/ml is only 100mg of test a week. You're EQ is best run at a minimum of 14 weeks at about 400-600mg a week. The Deca, don't even know what to say there. Is it npp or regular deca. I'll assume probably regualr deca. You should run more test than the deca to amintian good testicular function. D-bol, just do it, don't pussy foot around. Start at a steady dosage then keep it up for about four weeks.
    But others may have different opinions. This one should be interesting to hear what others will say.

  2. #12

    Default

    [QUOTE=Bufbiker;638971]
    Quote Originally Posted by LeanMean View Post
    Hello there fellas,

    1. Test Prop 1cc/Week
    2. Eq started at 1cc/week up to 4cc/week
    3. Deca 3-4cc/week
    4. Multivitamin injection, once a week
    5. Dbol started at 10mg/day up to 30mg/day and then decreasing back gradually.
    6. Nolvadex

    1cc a week dosed at 100mg/ml is only 100mg of test a week. You're EQ is best run at a minimum of 14 weeks at about 400-600mg a week. The Deca, don't even know what to say there. Is it npp or regular deca. I'll assume probably regualr deca. You should run more test than the deca to amintian good testicular function. D-bol, just do it, don't pussy foot around. Start at a steady dosage then keep it up for about four weeks.
    But others may have different opinions. This one should be interesting to hear what others will say.
    Well man, what I know for sure is that the test I'm using is dosed at 250mg/ml but it's merely used in my cycle as a base for EQ. I'm 100% on the dosage of test. As for the dosage of Eq im not quite sure tbh... but when I asked my trainer about the 12-14 weeks, he said that this is what he does for himself being in the game for more than 10 years, but for me a first timer he wouldn't give anything more than 6 weeks. As for the Deca, yes, it is the normal Deca-Durabolin. Last but not least, the Dbol, I started with 20 mg/day for one week then after that we increased it to 30mg/day. NOw I'm back to 20mg/day. The pills are legit (real) as I have researched and they are dosed at 5mg/pill.

    I have also run nolv at 20mg/day through out the cycle. On the other hand, I didn't take it nor Dbol on the off-days.
    My injections were split into two days, Sat and Wed, Sat Test&EQ (Same Injection) where on Wed Deca and Multivitamin (Sperate Injections)

    All your feedbacks are appreciated big time, please help me learn.

  3. #13
    Hazcat Guest

    Default

    He's running test enanthate or cypionate. Even though the cycle isn't something we would recommend for a beginner cycle it isn't horrible. I wouldn't want to begin to give you any advice without more knowledge about you such as age, height, weight, year of training, training splits, and a good look at your diet.

  4. #14
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    Default My question

    Did you run an ai during cycle? Also, how long has it been since you ended cycle? How much of your gains have you kept? And pct, what did you run post cycle? I'm sorry. I just read wherre you ran nolvadex. Did you run the nolvadex during cycle and after as well?

  5. #15
    Join Date
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    New Jersey
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LeanMean View Post

    1. Test Prop 1cc/Week
    2. Eq started at 1cc/week up to 4cc/week
    3. Deca 3-4cc/week
    4. Multivitamin injection, once a week
    5. Dbol started at 10mg/day up to 30mg/day and then decreasing back gradually.
    6. Nolvadex
    1. Buf is right about the prop- even if your using it as a base for the other steroids, the propionate etser releases the test quickly and has a half life of only 2-3 days. If you are injecting only 1xwk then during the gap between shots your blood plasma levels of test will be significantly reduced- offering you no additional gains. And higher risk for possble sides due to fluctuating hormone levels. Lastly, the dosage and injection frequencey for the prop should be 100-150mg EOD. This will show great results.

    2. Again buf was right about the EQ- EQ has a undecylenate ester which releases the EQ relatively slowly into the blood, and has a half life of 14-16days. The reason it should be run for 14-16 weeks is so the drug has time to reach a high enough blood level concentration (with overlapping shots and release times) to start making you grow. I can tell you now that over 6 weeks you got zero gains from this steroid. It might have increased your appetite a little around weeks 3-6 but otherwise a waste of a steroid im afraid.

    3. Deca, general concensus is that when running a test/eq/deca cycle the doseage of test and EQ should be higher then the deca. The reason for this is what is commonly called Deca Di*k. Basically deca increases the amount of prolactin in the body (as it is a progestin, and is part of the 19-nor test family) which can cause erectile dysfunction, discharge from the nipples and gynocomastia. Having a higer test/deca ratio helps to keep the little head working and used along side dostinex/bromocritpine (dopamine agonists that inhibit the release of prolactin) can be used to reduce sides and increase growth potential from this steroid. Also, deca has the decanoate ester attached to it, also a long acting steroid with a half life of 14-16 days. Again, it takes time for the drug to reach adequate blood concentration levels to stimulate growth, and 6 weeks is not considered long enough to see any kind of significant growth. 10-14weeks is the average time a user will run deca to see maximum gains.

    5. As buf mentiond earlier prymiding dosages is not longer thaught of as appropriate. It fluctuates blood horomone levels, and when you have androgens going up and down side effects appear to be worse. that being said, i would guess that ANY significant gains you made this cycle were from this steroid. Dbol has a very shot half life and is very potent, allowing the user to see results in a few days instead of weeks. 6 weeks is the maximum one should run dbol (due to liver toxicity) and will increase strength and size dramatically (depending on diet).

    You are lucky that there were no bad side effect to speak of, but the reason i believe there wernt any is because the cycle was too short for the deca to really kick in and your test dosage was so low (about the same many doctors perscribe as HRT) it didnt have a high enough blood level to do anything other then keep things ticking over.

    -Once you have that lot down, and understand the difference between half lives and what dosages and what not you can begin to see why the cycle you ran was not ideal... there is nothing wrong with short cycles but obviously they must be run with the appropriate drugs.

    A similar cycle to your could be run with short acting esters and could achieve excellent results, here is an example to show you what i mean;

    weeks 1-10: Testosterone Propionate; 150mg/EOD
    Weeks 1-9: NPP; 100mg EOD

    Weeks 1-10: Arimadex; 0.5mg/ EOD
    Weeks 1-10; Bromocritpine; 2mg/ED

    PCT:
    Week 11: Nolvadex 20mg/ED, Aromasin 25mg/ED
    Week 12: Nolvadex 20mg/ED, Aromasin 20mg/ED
    Week 13: Nolvadex 10mg/ED, Aromasin 15mg/ED
    Week 14: Nolvadex 10mg/ED, Aromasin 10mg/ED
    Week 15: Nolvadex 10mg/ED, Aromasin 5mg/ED

    NPP is Nandrolone phenyl Propionate (deca is "nandrolone decanoate")
    A short cycle such as this would yield significant gains (depending on diet) and exhibit very vew sides. NPP is basically a quick acting deca so we switched that in. EQ should only be run for long cycles in my opinion so we dropped that. Dbol is used in cycles to "kickstart" growth while you wait for longer ester steroids to reach their appropriate blood levels (about 3-4 weeks) but as we are using test prop here there is no wait time (maybe 1 week before you start to see results) a kickstart is not necessary. The same cycle can be run from weeks 1-8 for the prop and 1-7 for the npp but i feel like bringing it to a nice round 10 has more pros then cons, and would be more effecient.

    -Arimadex is an aromatase Inhibitor, basically means it stops the test turning into estrogen, and should be run with any cycle. Aromasin is a similar compound but is exhibits androgenic properties, ideal for PCT when our own androgens are very low.

    thats about all i wanted to say, get a good understanding of what i spoke about and you will be much more prepared next time around, and will have a much better time of it. Hope this help mate

  6. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hazcat View Post
    He's running test enanthate or cypionate. Even though the cycle isn't something we would recommend for a beginner cycle it isn't horrible. I wouldn't want to begin to give you any advice without more knowledge about you such as age, height, weight, year of training, training splits, and a good look at your diet.
    I don't know why I thought that I have mentioned my stats before but obviously I didn't. I'm 6.2" 29yr old and 198lbs with no more than 12-14% bf. in fact 14% is a bit exagerated I guess I'm around 13% tops.

    Training split is chest/triceps, Back/Abs, Delt/biceps/Abs, Legs. I train 5 times a week, I start the week with one of the above and end it with the same body part(s). So basically, each one is trained once a week with exception of one that is trained twice a week. the week next I start with the next body part so that I will end with it again and so forth.

    I have been training on and off for many years, but I have been training religiously since April last year, I was around 220 lbs with 22% fat, by Sep last year I was around 150 lbs or so with 9% bf (I know that's crazy) and I did that with the help of one bottle of fat burner and running like a maniac for 6 days a week and very strict diet, but I wasn't starving myself, I just changed my whole life style of one big junk meal a day to 6 healthy meals a day and been doing that ever since, but no running anymore cuz I needed to bulk. currently, my protein intake is around 160gm, from chicken breasts, tuna, Amino Acid (Liquid) and Whey among my conservative carbs intake during the day. I also eat one cheat meal each week. I also drink 2.5-3 liters of water everyday.

    Do you need more info

    do you need more info?

  7. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bufbiker View Post
    Did you run an ai during cycle? Also, how long has it been since you ended cycle? How much of your gains have you kept? And pct, what did you run post cycle? I'm sorry. I just read wherre you ran nolvadex. Did you run the nolvadex during cycle and after as well?
    I haven't finished the cycle just yet, I still have next week to go, injections will be on Sat and Wed. So obviously I haven't started PCT yet, but I'm planning on Clomid, as Nolv was during the cycle (20gm/day). I hope I will keep most of the gains, like I said, my protein intake was high, and I drink around 3Liters of water daily to prevent to keep my muscles hydrated as much as possible and to aid in prevention water retention. so I think most of my gains are muscles and not water, even though some of it might be, I will have to wait and see I suppose.

  8. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeHammer View Post
    1. Buf is right about the prop- even if your using it as a base for the other steroids, the propionate etser releases the test quickly and has a half life of only 2-3 days. If you are injecting only 1xwk then during the gap between shots your blood plasma levels of test will be significantly reduced- offering you no additional gains. And higher risk for possble sides due to fluctuating hormone levels. Lastly, the dosage and injection frequencey for the prop should be 100-150mg EOD. This will show great results.

    2. Again buf was right about the EQ- EQ has a undecylenate ester which releases the EQ relatively slowly into the blood, and has a half life of 14-16days. The reason it should be run for 14-16 weeks is so the drug has time to reach a high enough blood level concentration (with overlapping shots and release times) to start making you grow. I can tell you now that over 6 weeks you got zero gains from this steroid. It might have increased your appetite a little around weeks 3-6 but otherwise a waste of a steroid im afraid.

    3. Deca, general concensus is that when running a test/eq/deca cycle the doseage of test and EQ should be higher then the deca. The reason for this is what is commonly called Deca Di*k. Basically deca increases the amount of prolactin in the body (as it is a progestin, and is part of the 19-nor test family) which can cause erectile dysfunction, discharge from the nipples and gynocomastia. Having a higer test/deca ratio helps to keep the little head working and used along side dostinex/bromocritpine (dopamine agonists that inhibit the release of prolactin) can be used to reduce sides and increase growth potential from this steroid. Also, deca has the decanoate ester attached to it, also a long acting steroid with a half life of 14-16 days. Again, it takes time for the drug to reach adequate blood concentration levels to stimulate growth, and 6 weeks is not considered long enough to see any kind of significant growth. 10-14weeks is the average time a user will run deca to see maximum gains.

    5. As buf mentiond earlier prymiding dosages is not longer thaught of as appropriate. It fluctuates blood horomone levels, and when you have androgens going up and down side effects appear to be worse. that being said, i would guess that ANY significant gains you made this cycle were from this steroid. Dbol has a very shot half life and is very potent, allowing the user to see results in a few days instead of weeks. 6 weeks is the maximum one should run dbol (due to liver toxicity) and will increase strength and size dramatically (depending on diet).

    You are lucky that there were no bad side effect to speak of, but the reason i believe there wernt any is because the cycle was too short for the deca to really kick in and your test dosage was so low (about the same many doctors perscribe as HRT) it didnt have a high enough blood level to do anything other then keep things ticking over.

    -Once you have that lot down, and understand the difference between half lives and what dosages and what not you can begin to see why the cycle you ran was not ideal... there is nothing wrong with short cycles but obviously they must be run with the appropriate drugs.

    A similar cycle to your could be run with short acting esters and could achieve excellent results, here is an example to show you what i mean;

    weeks 1-10: Testosterone Propionate; 150mg/EOD
    Weeks 1-9: NPP; 100mg EOD

    Weeks 1-10: Arimadex; 0.5mg/ EOD
    Weeks 1-10; Bromocritpine; 2mg/ED

    PCT:
    Week 11: Nolvadex 20mg/ED, Aromasin 25mg/ED
    Week 12: Nolvadex 20mg/ED, Aromasin 20mg/ED
    Week 13: Nolvadex 10mg/ED, Aromasin 15mg/ED
    Week 14: Nolvadex 10mg/ED, Aromasin 10mg/ED
    Week 15: Nolvadex 10mg/ED, Aromasin 5mg/ED

    NPP is Nandrolone phenyl Propionate (deca is "nandrolone decanoate")
    A short cycle such as this would yield significant gains (depending on diet) and exhibit very vew sides. NPP is basically a quick acting deca so we switched that in. EQ should only be run for long cycles in my opinion so we dropped that. Dbol is used in cycles to "kickstart" growth while you wait for longer ester steroids to reach their appropriate blood levels (about 3-4 weeks) but as we are using test prop here there is no wait time (maybe 1 week before you start to see results) a kickstart is not necessary. The same cycle can be run from weeks 1-8 for the prop and 1-7 for the npp but i feel like bringing it to a nice round 10 has more pros then cons, and would be more effecient.

    -Arimadex is an aromatase Inhibitor, basically means it stops the test turning into estrogen, and should be run with any cycle. Aromasin is a similar compound but is exhibits androgenic properties, ideal for PCT when our own androgens are very low.

    thats about all i wanted to say, get a good understanding of what i spoke about and you will be much more prepared next time around, and will have a much better time of it. Hope this help mate
    First, I can't even thank you enough (the same for the rest of you guys) for taking the time to write all your feedback. Obviously, I should have registered here ever since I saw the website (Ages ago) and ask but I'm willing to learn from my mistakes. thank God it was a short cycle that I'm sure couldn't have caused any big sides or even bigger gains, but I must say that I made some good gains.

    1. I can see your point crystal clear, but I'm sure that it's dosed at 250mg and not 100mg. So as mention above... it could be cyp and prop. Because I have asked the trainer that I heard that I have to inject eod and he said that "the test we're using is 250mg/ml, so once a week for a beginner is enough."

    2. I can tell you that I have totally felt the increased appetite, guys at work always stare at me when I'm eating 3 grilled chicken breasts and a baked potato everyday, sometimes 4 chicken breasts, not to mention that snacks and shakes between meals. I have asked the trainer about EQ, he said that I'm a beginner and I should go for long cycles, and that EQ sure shines in 14 weeks but that doesn't mean that it's not effective in less than that.

    3. I well aware of Deca D*ck and to be honest, I haven't experienced anything like it, on the contrary, when it's on, that thing down there is ready to go and hard as a rock, and more often than ever before!!! Seriously man, I have read abt Deca and its sides, but experience the absolute opposite!!!

    4. May be what you're saying is right about having all the gains from Dbol, I wouldn't know tbh. But, I have read on many websites that Dbol should be pryramided. While in fact I believe that the trainer has pyramided all the stuff, and I asked him about it and he said that it's a must so that I don't experience any withdrawal symptoms by the time I'm off, which will be the week after next. But again, you all agree that what he did was old school so may be that's why.

    By the way, Aramidex is so expensive where I live (353 USD), I can't afford to buy it, gear is so much cheaper around here. I have read that Nolv and Clomid are also good choice and I went for Nolv during the cycle and Clomid for PCT.

    Can you please elaborate a little on half lives, or give me some hints on what to look for, because it's confusing

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    21,652

    Default

    hey no problem man were all here to help and learn!

    damn that is some expensive Arimadex! lol i would hope its not generic for that price, but if you look around (and up at Eclen's banner ) you can find generic arimadex, aromasin and nolva and leave with a heavier wallet...

    Half-life; the best way to explain this is with an example. The half life of a steroid depends on the ester that is attached to it. The length of the ester determines how quickly the steroid is released into the blood and used. So, using testosterone Enanthate as our example, which has a half life of 14 days;

    Injecting 250mg, after 14 days it will have released HALF of the test into the body or 125mg, after another 14 days it will have released HALF of that or 62.5mg, another 14 days and it will have released HALF again or 31.25mg...

    It takes time for the body's enzymes to break the ester from the test, and make the test bioavialable, this time depends on the length of the ester... here are some average half lives for esters;

    Acetate = 2 days
    prop = 2-3 days
    Enanthate = 12-14 days
    Cypionate = 15-16 days
    Undecylenate = 14-15 days
    Decanoate = 15-16 days

    So- if you inject a steroid with any of these esters attached, after the number of days listed next to it you have had HALF the amount you injected still unused. After about 4 half-life cycles the compound is considered to be cleared from the system.
    These esters are the reason why some steroids take time to show any results, we have to wait for overlapping injections to amount to a blood homone level concentration that causes a result. let me know if this isnt clear!

    as a side note- you trainer talking about "withdrawl symptoms" from a steroid is absurd. If he means having your natural testosterone shut down then that will happen regardles if you pryamid a dose or keep it stable.
    Last edited by JoeHammer; 05-13-2010 at 05:55 PM.

  10. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeHammer View Post
    hey no problem man were all here to help and learn!

    damn that is some expensive Arimadex! lol i would hope its not generic for that price, but if you look around (and up at Eclen's banner ) you can find generic arimadex, aromasin and nolva and leave with a heavier wallet...

    Half-life; the best way to explain this is with an example. The half life of a steroid depends on the ester that is attached to it. The length of the ester determines how quickly the steroid is released into the blood and used. So, using testosterone Enanthate as our example, which has a half life of 14 days;

    Injecting 250mg, after 14 days it will have released HALF of the test into the body or 125mg, after another 14 days it will have released HALF of that or 62.5mg, another 14 days and it will have released HALF again or 31.25mg...

    It takes time for the body's enzymes to break the ester from the test, and make the test bioavialable, this time depends on the length of the ester... here are some average half lives for esters;

    Acetate = 2 days
    prop = 2-3 days
    Enanthate = 12-14 days
    Cypionate = 15-16 days
    Undecylenate = 14-15 days
    Decanoate = 15-16 days

    So- if you inject a steroid with any of these esters attached, after the number of days listed next to it you have had HALF the amount you injected still unused. After about 4 half-life cycles the compound is considered to be cleared from the system.
    These esters are the reason why some steroids take time to show any results, we have to wait for overlapping injections to amount to a blood homone level concentration that causes a result. let me know if this isnt clear!

    as a side note- you trainer talking about "withdrawl symptoms" from a steroid is absurd. If he means having your natural testosterone shut down then that will happen regardles if you pryamid a dose or keep it stable.
    That's great, now I know what you're talking about, but can you please explain the overlapping injections part? didn't really get a grasp on why this is necessary or how it's done depending on the half life of the steroid.

    Another question, doesn't that mean that me for example, will start seeing results from the the cycle in few weeks time, I mean may be the gains I made are from Dbol like we talked about before but what about the rest? Am I gonna piss them away with no benefit? or would it show in a while? since they are all long esters?

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