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View Poll Results: Does this help wee guys get big?

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Thread: Mass Gain without Roids

  1. #1
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    Talking Mass Gain without Roids

    Any of the long term pro's out there got any tips on gaining without roids. i intend to do a cycle in the near future but i want to optimize before i do.

    I'm 36 5ft 7. about 14% bf - weight 10.6 stone

    Ive worked out on and off for about 4-5 years (lifting) before that i was mostly anaerobic (sports like basketball and boxing, most of my life).

    Last summer i got my bf down to about 8% (maybe less) but i looked terrible with clothes on - everybody told me i looked ill. I essentially i cut out most carbs and focused on large quantities of protein (carb free).

    I need to bulk before i can cut otherwise i look like a drowned rat.

    I have thought about taking roids for some 10 years now (or more) but felt i should wait until i was older and had put many years of consideration behind me first.

    I have been reading about anabolic's for a few years and the same names and cycles are cropping up again and again. thus i am beginning to understand the roid do's and don'ts i little better.

    I want to bulk during this winter and trim for the summer sun

    Ive been farting about thinking about taking as's for to long - its time to get my body to its peak then do a beginner cycle.

    Any tips on any of the points discussed above would be appreciated! i know you guys must be sick of newbs asking these types of questions but this is one of the few sources we can get independent advice - so thanks to all you givers!!!

  2. #2
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    I've moved this thread to wher it should be. It will get more traffick here.
    The information given is for entertainment purposes only. I do not use steroids nor condone their use. I am not a trained health professional and therefore any answer given is strictly an intellectual exercise, not advice on how to use steroids.
    Muscle Forged In Pain!

  3. #3
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    By the way to answer your question, and you may not believe my answer; but steroids do not make you big. Food and weight training is what causes the growth. The steroids simply help your body recover more quickly and adapt to the stress being placed on the bodt from lifting heavy weight.
    Steroids will make you stronger, and will promote greater growth assuming your diet and training are right on track first.
    You can take mega doses of steroids and not gain a pound. It's all about the food intake!
    The information given is for entertainment purposes only. I do not use steroids nor condone their use. I am not a trained health professional and therefore any answer given is strictly an intellectual exercise, not advice on how to use steroids.
    Muscle Forged In Pain!

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bufbiker View Post
    By the way to answer your question, and you may not believe my answer; but steroids do not make you big. Food and weight training is what causes the growth. The steroids simply help your body recover more quickly and adapt to the stress being placed on the bodt from lifting heavy weight.
    Steroids will make you stronger, and will promote greater growth assuming your diet and training are right on track first.
    You can take mega doses of steroids and not gain a pound. It's all about the food intake!
    Well I don't wanna sound harsh here buddy, but that's all incorrect. In almost every study they give steroids they have a control subject not working out, and they gain mass and strength significantly. My opinion about the topic however is, if you feel like you can bulk naturally, then I say go natural. A lot of us aas users hit a peak or plateau, and eventually sauce is used to grow beyond it. So if you're still growing naturally, why use aas?

  5. #5
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    But steroids only make you bigger because they help shuttle the good and bad through the system better. IMO it's all food and training. Anabolics are just the icing on the cake!

  6. #6
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    Cheers guys - some good advice. the main reason i was planning to do a cycle was that i previously worked out for about two and a half years (on a bulk) whilst eating lots (6 meals a day etc) and i bulked up quite well - but i did reach a plateau that i did not manage to break. And to be frank i wasn't that happy with my size - stil not great. I think naturally i'm not going to reach the size a aspire to be. i certainly don't want to chase a quick fix. i always put the work in. and i will control my diet well and stop alcohol etc.

    May be the foods i was eating could have been changed to help growth. i was eating as much seafood or tuna as i could get basically - regular steaks and whole chickens - spread well over the day. I was basically eating all the time. lots of meat snacks and lots of fruit and greens, plus creatine and protein shakes morning and night and after work outs.


    I couldn't eat anymore lol

    So i was planning a bulk on food and shake only (like before) for about 3 months - then a beginners cycle. I don't want to get to big - but i think i will need to put considerable size on first in order to cut down and get ripped whilst still holding some size gains. Can anyone help with diet or cycle tips to achieve this?

  7. #7
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    I want to touch on what Buf and Shackles said here especially being they are on opposite opinions here. I think Shackles may have taken Bufs statement to literally but in my opinion what Buf said has merit in that steroids do not make you grow muscle (in and of themselves). Just like training naturally you will not gain muscle in any noticeable amount if you do not train and eat sufficiently.

    Now here is where Shackles statement and Bufs actually compliment each other. I agree there have been studies where steroids have been administered where some muscle growth has taken place in the absence of training. What you need to understand here is there are very few people who are completely sedentary so day to day activities can promote muscle growth in the correct environment. In these studies the patients still required nutrition and being they were on steroids this put their bodies in an environment conducive of muscle growth. They simply would not have gained any measurable muscle mass just laying on the sofa as that can't happen.

    Now what steroids actually do is again, as said by Buf and Juju, is improve recovery from stress on the muscle to promote growth. This is done because steroids increase protein synthesis and by shuttling more nutrients into the body that may otherwise be passed out as waste. The benefit of steroids is that you can gain significantly more muscle on them over the same amount of time as you can naturally.

    Here is my take on your situation. As we age we tend to have lower hormone levels such as test and growth hormone. This in itself is not an ideal environment for muscle growth but even with lower levels most can still make gains. The problem is the gains are coming much slower as our bodies can only process so much protein and recovers only so fast naturally. You are at an age where you should have about middle of normal test levels. This isn't horrible but you should already realize you aren't getting huge muscle gains naturally. So if your goal is to put on 10 pounds of lean mass then lower body fat by spring I would say that is not a likely proposition if you stay natural. It isn't completely impossible but at roughly 150 pounds at your age I say you will maybe see half of that with a lower body fat.

    If you are going to use steroids either before or after you lower body fat then I suggest doing it now being you are only at 14% body fat. You can drop a couple percent and gain lean mass while on any cycle as long as you eat very clean as long as you eat enough calories. If you follow the below cycle then you could easily be at 10% body fat. We typically suggest a beginner run a single estered test only cycle as it is less problematic. We do sometimes offer the advice of adding an oral in the cycle either up front or at the end and we generally limit the cycle to around 12 weeks. I will stick to that with the exception of the cycle length and explain that there will be two phases to this cycle. The first being a bulk then a cut on the back side.

    Wk 1-12 test cyp 500mg per week (bulk here by taking on excess CLEAN calories)
    Wk 1-4 dbol 40mg ED
    Wk 11-16 test cyp 500mg per week (cut here by lowering calories and increasing cardio)
    Wk 11-16 winstrol 50mg ED
    Wk 3-19 adex .25mg E3D
    The day after the last shot/dose of aas start HCG at 1000iu ED for 10 days. (it is important to run adex during this time)
    The day after the HCG is done start pct using nolvadex 20/20/10/10/10 and clomid 50/50/25/25.

    So basically this cycle will give you 12 weeks to bulk and 6 to cut. The advantage of cutting while still on cycle is you will not lose the muscle you gained during the first part of the cycle. The advantage of running the winstrol on the back side is it will help dry you out and solidify your gains. If you were a more advanced user there would be more options but this is about as much of a cycle as I would suggest to a beginner. You are running 10 weeks of orals (split up) and that is a lot so avoid any alcohol during this cycle to help prevent stress on your liver.
    Last edited by Floridagrowin; 09-25-2011 at 05:47 PM.
    The statements contained herein have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. The consumer comments and experiences relayed herein may not be typical. Your experience may vary.



    Disclaimer: The advice I provide is based on experience and/or research and should not be considered professional medical advice. It is best to confirm any potential use of a drug or possible medical condition with a licensed doctor.

  8. #8
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    FloridaGrown - thank you very much for your advice. i'm going to do exactly as you have suggested. You really know your stuff - thats it all summed for me. in the past i have read that such a cycle would be suitable for beginners but you've just put it into brass tacts - cheers bro!

    not wanting to push it... but do you have any diet or workout regime suggestions for during these phases. Ive been around the gym for a few years but if you don't mind giving me advice then i will follow it to the dot. thanks again )

  9. #9
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    well said FloridaGrown!

  10. #10
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    i have to add here that we all know guys, some of them even come on this site to find out what is wrong, who are doing decent amounts of steroids but they are not growing.
    They are training hard, their bodies recover quickly, but there is no growth as far as mass (weight gain). What's the problem? Their are not taking in enough calories for growth. they are leaning out, looking more vascular etc, but no extra pounds added on. It's all in the diet.
    I probably overstated my argument to make a point but I stand by it.
    The information given is for entertainment purposes only. I do not use steroids nor condone their use. I am not a trained health professional and therefore any answer given is strictly an intellectual exercise, not advice on how to use steroids.
    Muscle Forged In Pain!

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