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Thread: Gaining ckd

  1. #1
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    Default Gaining ckd

    Alright this is my thread about trying a gaining CKD. I have tried a 14 day CKD diet before for cutting purposes and it worked a treat, loosing about 3% bf while lean mass only went down about 4-5lbs. How much of that was water that replenished after I re-fed and came off CKD i dont know because im a lazy asshole and i didnt measure. Either way i was very impressed.

    SYL has gotten me interested in a GAINING CKD diet now, mainly because i am looking to lean out a bit AND add some nice lean mass. Here are my stats:

    Age: 24
    Weight: 178lbs
    Height: 5' 11"
    BF%: 14% (pretty innacurate- measured with a shitty plastic caliper)
    Previous AAS cycles: 1
    Previous CKD: 1

    First i will calculate my BMR or Basal Metabolic Rate. This is the amount of calories i burn throughout the day just to function. Then I implement the Harris Benidict Formula to help me figure out my maintainance calories based on my activity level. Once i have this number I will add 500cals and consider that my "gaining" calorie level. After which i will make a diet suited to the CKD rules and my own needs.

    Men: BMR = 66 + ( 6.23 x weight in pounds ) + ( 12.7 x height in inches ) - ( 6.8 x age in year )

    so: BMR = 66 + ( 6.23 x 178) + ( 12.7 x 71) - ( 6.8 x 24)
    BMR = 1913.44 Calories


    Harris Benedict Formula
    To determine your total daily calorie needs, multiply your BMR by the appropriate activity factor, as follows:


    If you are sedentary (little or no exercise) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.2
    If you are lightly active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.375
    If you are moderatetely active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.55
    If you are very active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days a week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.725
    If you are extra active (very hard exercise/sports & physical job or 2x training) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.9

    I will be training Cardio 5x a week along with Weight training 4x a week so i will multiply my BMR by 1.55 which = 2965.83 Calories for MAINTAINANCE. To grow i will add 500cals to this which makes my dietary needs 3500cals per day

    Now, this will be the number of calories to consume on LOW CARB DAYS. On refeed days i will adjust my intake in order to ensure that i fill my muscles with carbs whilst keeping fat intake low in order to avoid fat storage. On the topic of carb replenishment i refer to SYL and here is what he says about it:

    "Liver glycogen is pretty stable with a max of 60-90g of glucose stored

    For muscle, it's 14g/kg of muscle mass.

    Take someone who is 200lbs with 10% body fat. It would be the normal assumption to say that this individual has 20lbs of body fat and 180lbs of lean body mass and equate this amount of body mass to the amount of muscle we have. This is a mistake. Muscle mass accounts for roughly 40% of our lean mass (the rest being water, bones, skeleton, organs).

    In reality this individal would have around 72lbs of muscle mass, or around 33kg.

    33kg x 14g/kg = 462g of carbs that can be stored.

    In general, the average size male lifter will be able to store anywhere from 350 to 500g of carbs as glycogen"

    So if i plug my numbers in here my lean mass is :151.3lbs, 40% of this is 60.52lbs of muscle, or about 26kg. So 26kg x 14g/kg = 364g of carbs that can be stored. This is what i will aim to hit on refeeds. Now, i dont include "pre-load" days as a refeed, thats just a top up. The main refeed comes at the end of the 14 days in the last 3 days. SO day 13 i will aim to hit the 364g of carbs, the subsequent "high carb" day will less, probably around 300g while i implement the loaded routine.

    here is the link to the 14 day CKD diet so you all know what im talking about: http://forums.isteroids.com/diet-nut...4-day-ckd.html

    This is getting kina long so ill post the Diet in the next section.

  2. #2
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    Day 1: Low Carb

    Meal 1: Shake; 2 cups water, 1 Scoop Casien Protien, 4 tbsp Peanut Butter
    Protien: 39g , Carbs: 15g , Fat: 35g

    Meal 2: 1/2lb 93% lean ground beef, 5 eggs
    Protien: 88g , Carbs: 2g , Fat: 38g

    Meal 3: 1 can Tuna, 2 tbsp Light Mayo, 1 cup Mixed salad
    Protien: 56g , Carbs: 2g , Fat: 16g

    PWO Meal: Shake; 1 scoop Casien Protien, 1 scoop pro-complex, 2 cups water
    Protien: 42g , Carbs: 12g , Fat: 1g

    Meal 4: 1/2lb 93% lean ground beef, 5 eggs
    Protien: 88g , Carbs: 2g , Fat: 38g

    Meal 5: 1/2 lbs Salmon, 1 cup Broccoli, 1 cup Mixed salad
    Protien: 50g , Carbs: 0g , Fat: 28g

    Before Bed: 5 Eggs
    Protien: 30g , Carbs: 1g , Fat: 25g

    Total: Protien: 393g , Carbs: 35g , Fat: 181g , Calories:3400

    Day 13: Re-feed;

    Meal 1: Shake; 1/2 cup dry oats, 2 cups water, 1 scoop Casien protien, 1 cup strawberries
    Protien: 36g , Carbs: 60g , Fat: 7g

    Meal 2: PB + J; 2 Slices Whole Wheat Bread, 2 tbsp Peanut butter, 2 tbsp Jam
    Protien: 22g , Carbs: 73g , Fat: 17g

    Meal 3: 1/4lb lean beef, 1 cup Basmati Rice (cooked), 1 cup Broccoli,
    Protien: 33g , Carbs: 36g , Fat: 7g

    PWO Meal: Shake; 1/4 cup dry oats, 2 cups water,2 scoops whey, 2 tbsp peanut butter, banana
    Protien: 56g , Carbs: 39g , Fat: 17g

    Meal 4: 1 Cup Basmati Rice (cooked), 1 cup Borccoli, 1 cup Mixed salad, 1 cup strawberries
    Protien:4g , Carbs: 42g, Fat: 1g

    Meal 5: Before Bed: Banana, 1 scoop casein, 1 cup water, 1 cup ice cream
    Protien: 43g , Carbs: 100g , Fat: 10g

    Total: Protien: 198g , Carbs: 345g , Fat: 60g , Calories:2712

    Day 5: Preload Carb:

    Meal 1:Shake; 2 cups water, 1 Scoop Casien Protien, 2 tbsp Peanut Butter
    Protien: 32g , Carbs: 18g , Fat: 18g

    Meal 2: 1/4lb 95% lean ground beef, 3 fried eggs
    Protien: 43g , Carbs: 2g , Fat: 25g

    Meal 3: 1 can Tuna, 2 tbsp Light Mayo, 1 cup Mixed salad,
    Protien: 56g , Carbs: 2g , Fat: 16g

    PWO Meal: Shake; 2 cups water, 2 scoops whey, 2 tbsp peanut butter, banana (half before, half after)
    Protien: 56g , Carbs: 39g , Fat: 2g

    Meal 4: 1/4lbs Salmon, 1 Cup Basmati Rice (cooked), 1 cup Borccoli, 1 cup Mixed salad
    Protien: 28g , Carbs: 31g , Fat: 15g

    Meal 5: PB + J; 2 Slices Whole Wheat Bread, 4 tbsp Peanut butter, 2 tbsp Jam
    Protien: 22g , Carbs: 80g , Fat: 18g

    Before Bed: Banana, 1 scoop casein, 1 cup water
    Protien: 25g , Carbs: 37g , Fat: 1g

    Total: Protien: 262g , Carbs: 209g , Fat: 95g , Calories:2895

    High Carb day: or day 14 will be similar to my preload day with the carbs coming more spread throughout the day. Thats its folks ill be starting this on monday let me know what you all think and feel free to tear it apart

  3. #3

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    That looks good Joe. Mine wasn't as well thought out. I started with 3lbs of New York Strip a day and added a quarter lb a day each week until I was up to 5lbs a day. I was aiming to be a scale-model Bengal Tiger. They weigh 700-800lbs and eat 20lbs meat a day. Ha ha. So you can see where I was going...

    After training naturally for years, I had gone from 160lbs to 210lbs in lean condition, but had more or less hit a plateau. After 6 months of steak and sunflower seeds 5 days a week, I weighed 227 and could still see my abs. And I still had yet to ever touch AAS. I was quite pleased and think you will be too.

    You may want to add a few more simple sugars other than the fruit in the beginning, as you will want to maximize insulin's anabolic qualities and fructose will replenish liver glycogen, but won't cause insulin release to drive both protein and muscle glycogen storage.

    The goal is to maximize all 3 endogenous anabolic hormones. Testosterone, hGH, and Insulin. Insulin is antagonistic to both endogenous Testosterone production and hGH release, so during the low carb phase insulin is kept low. Then during the re-feed, higher insulin levels are actually desirable to drive storage.

    Something I've learned recently is that it may take less exercise than I previously thought to migrate GLUT4 receptors in muscle. What I have been experimenting with lately is doing 50 reps of either air squats, triceps extensions( leaning out against a wall) or chest pulls or rows with an elastic band I can carry. These are all things you can do wherever you are (such as the bathroom stall at the restaurant). I do one of these immediately before the main course and 1 1/2 hours after.

    I learned this from Timothy Ferriss' book, "The 4 Hour Body". Great book BTW. I also consume 200mg ALA with each meal as it has also been shown to transport GLUT4 receptors to the muscle cell membrane, as well as increase insulin sensitivity. Also, garlic extract with high Allicin content appears to inhibit fat regain... So a few new tricks in the arsenal... Good luck man!

  4. #4

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    Something that occurred to me is that a 5/2 plan would be better. The goal of a cutting ckd is to maximize fat loss while minimizing muscle loss, thus the 14 day version which has you in ketosis a higher percentage of time.

    The goal of the gaining ckd is to maximize muscle gain, whilst minimizing fat gain. This is accomplished by manipulation of endogenous anabolic hormones as I mentioned above. Also, when in a carb burning metabolism, once glycogen begins to run low, the body will turn to muscle for fuel. So people eating carbs who engage in these marathon workouts are fueling them partially with muscle. Any muscle they manage to build mostly replaces what they just used. Whereas in ketosis, workouts are fueled by fat and muscle is accrued, rather than merely replaced.

    In order to maximize the anabolic potential of insulin, a 5 day low-carb period followed by a 36 hour carb up is most effective. 36 hrs is not long enough to lay down fat, or fully switch back to a carb-burning metabolism. Plus you will have the benefit of increased insulin sensitivity.

    On a training note, what I did was to train legs on Monday, doing squats and deads in the manner I've described to you when I was fully glycogenated and at full strength. Tues. was chest and back. Thurs, arms and shoulders. Then I would perform the full body glycogen depletion Sat morning, followed by the carb-up lasting until about 7 PM, Sun. I did it like this to maximize the continuous period of time following the depletion workout (uninterrupted by sleep, and one sleeping period rather than two).

    Anyways, some more thoughts...
    Last edited by StrappingYoungLad; 03-27-2011 at 01:07 PM.

  5. #5
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    Damn thats some inspiring stuff man i appreciate it, i like the 5/2 idea alot too. Im going to go for that, one question i have is did you incorporate any extra cardio while you were trying this? like before breakfast or anything?

    On the diet side of things maybe i have over complicated things, i tend to do that when i get excited about an idea. You started at 3lbs of quality meat a day...im guessing spread evenly throughout the day. How much veggies and salad did you have to eat to avoid constipation and things of that nature? Because honestly the idea of just eating a ton of red meat every day without having to measure and weigh ingredients is very appealing and will make it much more enjoyable.

    Anyway thanks for the help mate, on a side note i have some clen floating around- worth implementing on either low or high carb days? i was thinking use it on low carb days to help burn extra fat...or use it on high carb days to help avoid fat regain. I was leaning toward the first

  6. #6

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    Yeah, I used to buy whole New York strip loins in the cryovac bag for a good price. You probably still can like at Costco or something. I'd just slice it like a loaf of bread, each steak the thickness of my thumb. Then divide the weight by number of steaks for my calculations.

    I had a propane barbeque, so I'd barbeque em up, wrap in saran wrap and put them in the fridge. I'd take them to work in a cooler and eat them on the fly. I prefer the smaller loins in the neighborhood of 10lbs. You can see how they would work better with this system than the 14 lbers.

    For regularity, I used a lot of psyllium seed husk powder. Still do, actually. That stuff is the best. Occasionally I'd have a Caesar salad without the croutons. Or I'd buy a hamburger and throw away the bread. Or what I did today, stopped and bought a pint of heavy whipping cream and downed it. Yummy! Needless to say I didn't trim the fat off my New Yorks.

    Clen on low-carb days might help with energy needs. Not during the carb-up. I also always recommend a couple teaspoons a day of Lo-Salt (2:1 potassium chloride-sodium chloride) mixed into your water. One teaspoon per litre is not too salty. You really need 3-5g potassium a day, and even a diet with carbs won't provide that. Potassium is crucial and I always supplement with potassium chloride regardless of low carb or not. Also salt is imperative as well. Where people get into trouble is having the ratio skewed too much toward sodium instead of potassium.

    Have fun. You'll get really big and strong emphasizing beef.

    Oh, I forgot the cardio question. I didn't but you can if you want. I use a bicycle for transportation these days so I get a lot more cardio than I used to. Unless you're already fatter than you'd like, I wouldn't worry too much about it. You won't get fat on this diet. Impossible. So up to you man.
    Last edited by StrappingYoungLad; 03-28-2011 at 09:18 PM.

  7. #7
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    Alright so this is day one of the gaining CKD. I FREAKIN LOVE BEEF. Im splitting 3lbs of top round (strip was too expensive! holy moly) into 6meals of 1/2lb each with a handfull of broccoli and/or carrots/mixed salad. Dont want to get too crazy with the carrots and end up orange

    Next stop- Bengali

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeHammer View Post
    Alright so this is day one of the gaining CKD. I FREAKIN LOVE BEEF. Im splitting 3lbs of top round (strip was too expensive! holy moly) into 6meals of 1/2lb each with a handfull of broccoli and/or carrots/mixed salad. Dont want to get too crazy with the carrots and end up orange

    Next stop- Bengali
    Please keep us updated! I started a CKD a week ago and want to know if anyone here has gained on one. I'm trying to cut right now, but will be bulking again in a couple of weeks. I wouldn't mind staying on, but have a lot of questions about that.

    Good luck!
    5' 8"
    186lbs
    TRT of 125mg/wk

  9. #9

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    Beef is awesome. Saturated fat (the building block of testosterone), assimilable iron, B12, HMB, CLA... Plus red meat has the most beneficial amino acid profile (other than your training partner and eating humans is frowned upon). I mean tuna protein is fine for building tunas but... Anyways, top round is fine. At the time I was sometimes getting the strip for as low as $2.99/lb so... I also grilled hamburger patties. "Meat cookies", I called them. Sometimes I'd melt some swiss cheese on top for "glazed" meat cookies.

    Don't get too carried away with the carrots for sure. One cup ch opped has 12g carbs. 4g are fiber, so 8g net, but 6g are sugar.

    Have fun man. You're gonna love it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrappingYoungLad View Post
    Beef is awesome. Saturated fat (the building block of testosterone), assimilable iron, B12, HMB, CLA... Plus red meat has the most beneficial amino acid profile (other than your training partner and eating humans is frowned upon). I mean tuna protein is fine for building tunas but... Anyways, top round is fine. At the time I was sometimes getting the strip for as low as $2.99/lb so... I also grilled hamburger patties. "Meat cookies", I called them. Sometimes I'd melt some swiss cheese on top for "glazed" meat cookies.

    Don't get too carried away with the carrots for sure. One cup ch opped has 12g carbs. 4g are fiber, so 8g net, but 6g are sugar.

    Have fun man. You're gonna love it.
    Beef, it's what's for dinner. I'm in cattle country and this is the gospel!

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