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Thread: Talk to me about Anavar

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOGAN
    all he ever says is blah if he doesnt hear what he wants to....he asks for advise and when he gets it it doesnt matter to him anyway....so why even help him out
    Knock off the attitude Opi

    IX

  2. #32
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    Characteristics:

    AAccording to many an opinion this drug delivers the best gains, qualitatively speaking, for money. You notice two names on top of this profile, but unfortunately finaject hasn't been made in quite a while now. Since 1987. This is quite a shame. Both Finaplix and finaject are veterinary steroids and were readily and easily available for democratic prices. Finaject was an injectable and provided you could find a sterile source it was quite convenient. Now only finaplix remains as the original source of trenbolone acetate. The Ttokkyo brand trenbol75 surfaces from time to time as well, but its derived from the same material, though qualitatively not as pure. The problem with finaplix as opposed to finaject is that it comes in veterinary implant pellets, and trust me, you don't want to get one of these babies shot in your butt. So it needs to be converted to either a transdermal (often using DMSO) or an injectable. There are kits to achieve both. Trenbolone nasal sprays are gaining popularity as well.

    Trenbolone acetate is rather short-acting but well liked because of its great availability and price. The alternative is the limited availability of Parabolan, a longer-acting trenbolone ester made for human use. Unfortunately certain lots only surface from time to time and they never sell cheap. They do act quite a bit longer. Parabolan (trenbolone as hexahydrobencylcarbonate) has the half-life of an enanthate meaning it requires less frequent injections. One of the major problems with finaplix however is that beginners making sterile injectable compounds isn't a wishful thing, and often leads to abscesses and infections.

    The fun with Fina is that it causes small, well-maintainable and quality gains. Naturally it won't give you the sort of mass that testosterone or methandrostenolone would give, but it makes up for it by adding only quality mass (no estrogen formation, so no fat and water retention) which is quite easy to keep on your frame. In contradiction to many aromatizing steroids such as testosterone where a large portion of the gained mass is quickly lost again after discontinuation of the product.

    It's also a very versatile product that can be used in a lot of different ways. One could easily stack it with testosterone, anadrol or dianabol for mass gains where the actions of trenbolone cause severe strength gains and add some quality to the mass. Since trenbolone was found to be roughly 3 to 4 times as anabolic as most testosterone esters it quite easily boosts strength over short periods of time. It acts well on the androgen receptor with as a result that it can have certain side-effects. Most notably the normal androgenic side-effects such as increased acne and a risk for prostate hypertrophy, definitely increased aggression leading to roid rage in prolonged use of high doses and in some cases an aggravation of an existing hair loss problem.

    On the other hand trenbolone just as easily combines with stanozolol or methenolone for purposes of reducing body-fat. Bill Roberts recently claimed that trenbolone doesn't reduce body-fat and that nothing in the literature proves it does. But I beg to differ. Either Mr.Roberts isn't too bright or he doesn't know how to perform a medline search, since after a mere minute of searching I found a study1 that clearly documented the fat-loss aspects of trenbolone acetate. It clearly concluded (even said so in the abstract) that trenbolone does indeed reduce body-fat (as androgens do, we discuss this in our profile of Masteron), but only when not competing with circulating estrogen. This means as a fat-loss agonist, trenbolone is best used late in a cycle and only combined with non-aromatizing steroids since it competes with circulating estradiol. Body-fat percentage when cutting would drop regardless, simply because of the qualitative lean mass gain made while no extra body-fat is deposited.

    And finally in doses of 50-100 mg daily, trenbolone acetate can be used just fine by itself and quite favorably. In fact for people starting out, not too concerned with the side-effects and looking solely for a quality increase in lean muscle, small doses of fina (50mg/day injectable) would be very suitable.

    The mechanism by which trenbolone mediates skeletal muscle hypertrophy is diversified and not very well understood. On the one hand trenbolone is a very active agonist of the androgen receptor, as illustrated by its increasing strength and aggression at the level it does. While this is a large contributor there is evidence that it mediates muscle growth by another pathway entirely2,3, namely the increasing of satellite cell sensitivity to an increase in IGF-1 (Insulin-Like growth factor 1) and FGF (Fibroblast growth factor). This would result in a much, much greater nutrient uptake and protein synthesis and explain why trenbolone is so much more potent in building lean muscle than other non-aromatizing, AR-mediated steroids like drostanolone and mesterolone.

    In fact, in veterinary cycles the androgenic hypertrophy is regarded as the strongest of any steroid, which is why instead of using aromatizing compounds to enhance mass in cattle, they now inject them with products like Revalor-S, which contains trenbolone and estradiol, to make up for the lack of estrogenic mass accrual.

    The points one may wish to consider during use of Fina is the low sterility of some home-brewed concoctions along with the already relatively painful injections (high alcohol content). This can lead to multiple problems when it is injected daily. Lumps due to plentiful same-site injections, abscesses and infections caused by faulty filtering and so on. Trenbolone is not particularly toxic though. Liver values are barely elevated while using it. Though there is no evidence or explanation to support this, some users reported a certain kidney-toxicity. Blood in urine and all that. While this was no doubt the result of a fake (Finaject used to be an often faked steroid shortly after its discontinuation) but I figured I'd mention it. Other than that mild androgenic effects such as acne and an increase in hair loss are noted as well.

    For those seeking to use trenbolone there are many online sources on how to make injectable, transdermal and intranasal forms if you can get your hands on fina. Some sites even sell conversion kits that make the whole even easier.

    Stacking and Use:

    Trenbolone is relatively safe steroid all in all. There is some concern about kidney toxicity, but usually exaggerated. The beauty of trenbolone is that its one steroid that has it all : Its highly effective in its own, provides all lean gains which are fairly easy to maintain and isn't very prone to cause side-effects. Finaplix particularly provides you with a cheap source of trenbolone as well. The problem is making the cartridges into a sterile injectable or transdermal.

    A transdermal is made quite easily. Option number one is simply to get your hands on some DMSO, mix up a 50/50 mix of DMSO and water, add in the crushed up fina pellets and apply to the skin. The second is to make an alcohol carrier. You can find the necessary products at any local pharmacy and the more you buy, the cheaper it gets. All of it perfectly legal, easy to obtain since pharmacies are supplied 5 times a day and not too expensive. You need ethanol (as pure as it gets, I use SD40) and Isopropyl Myristate (IPM), a mix of isopropyl alcohol and myristic acid. Mix up 70% ethanol and 30% IPM and dissolve 50 mg per ml trenbolone in your solution. Meaning if you had a solution of half a liter (500 ml) you could add in 25 grams of trenbolone. Again, simply apply and let it dry. These methods will give you roughly 25% absorption of trenbolone.

    To get the maximum it is recommended that you inject the stuff of course, but that's slightly more complex as you need to get rid of a lot of the crap they put in these cartridges. You will need sterile oil, solvent (lipophillic), 1 empty sterile container, A syringe filter, two syringes and 2 18gauge needles. Start by putting your pellets in your solvent, and let it sit. You want the pellets to become completely undone and dissolved in your fluid. This is imperative. Shake it up real good and then let it sit for 12-48 hours to let all the crap sink to the bottom. Now take one of your syringes and start transferring the fluid into the sterile oil. You can decant as well, but you really don't want any of the crud on the bottom to make it into this solution, so using the syringe and doing it slowly is the best way. Now take your empty sterile container and use a new syringe to transfer the oil. Attach a syringe filter between syringe and needle and slowly put the oil into your container, slowly filtering it. For everytime you repeat this step you need uncouple the filter/needle from the syringe, or else dirt will gather at the wrong side of the filter and get into your solution. In fact, if your container is a vial its advised that you leave the needle in the vial with the filter on it and you just use the syringe to refill and filter. This solution is now fit to be injected. Its still advised to hold the syringe with the trenbolone under some hot streaming water before injecting first though.

    One may also want to note that finaplix has decent oral availability as well. In fact, because of the acetate ester its transdermal availability is less than it would be for a pure steroid, so actually its oral potential is greater than its transdermal potential. When taking oral fina, to account for the difference in availability between this and injectable, one would have to consume 240 mg ( 3 times 4 pellets) every day for 6-8 weeks. But it does work and it saves you the time and cost of making a transdermal.

    Nasal sprays and sublingual forms are also popular, and while they too have some minor success, they are the worst way to go. It's a steroid, and with the added ester its even more lipophillic. Since the mucous membranes in the mouth and nose only let hydrophilic substances through, the rate of absorption is extremely limited. Usually to achieve this cyclodextrins are used, sugars that are lipophillic on the inside and can hold a steroid inside, but are hydrophilic on the outside, making the whole absorbable through these channels. But since fina does not have this and most of us do not possess the skills to make cyclodextrin complexes in our own kitchens, this is not a path one should consider.

    There is little or no need to stack secondary drugs with fina. It does not aromatize. There is some concern as to fina being progestagenic, so you should you opt to stack it with an aromatizable compound it may worsen potential gynocomastia so adding winstrol or Nolvadex, or even both to such a stack may be wise. But in itself or in a non-aromatizing stack this is not necessary. The use for post-cycle estrogen antagonists is limited as well, so Nolva or clomid to boost natural test will have little use. It is a very strong androgen receptor agonist however, so perhaps using some HCG after a cycle may help you retain more gains and prevent testicular shrinkage, but since HCG does increase estrogen that does reinstate the use of Nolvadex or clomid as well.

    References

  3. #33
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    A Closer Look at Trenbolone, Part I

    by William Llewellyn
    Author of Anabolics 2006 - Anabolic Steroid Reference Manual

    World-renowned anabolic authority, William Llewellyn has written and rewritten the definitive book on steroids. His series of ANABOLICS books have become the most trusted steroid and performance drug reference book of its kind. For over 15 years Llewellyn has uncovered and compiled cutting-edge insider's information from actual drug manufacturers, dealers, and users from all over the world, guaranteeing up-to-date information.

    Not too many steroids have an air of mystique about them quite like trenbolone. It is one of those agents that you will hear talked up aggressively by some guy in the gym, to later find he has not even tried it himself yet. The bodybuilding literature is full of strong, unusual, and often-inaccurate statements about this drug, and consequently an air of misunderstanding has begun to cloud our view of trenbolone. The unusual history of this compound, including prolonged periods of very limited availability and high selling prices, has no doubt played a part in shaping the view of this steroid in the minds of athletes. It seems when anything is out of reach, overly expensive or both, people start looking at it in a different way. I therefore thought it would be a good idea to take a closer look at the physical properties of trenbolone, as well as its current state of availability and use.

    Structure
    Structurally trenbolone is a derivative of nandrolone, carrying two additional double carbon bonds at positions 9 and 11 (hence the prefix "tren", short for tri-en). The activity of trenbolone differs from that of its parent hormone considerably however. To begin with, trenbolone cannot aromatize to estrogen. The delta-9 group present on its structure occupies a bond necessary for aromatization of the A-Ring to be possible. Unless this group is removed metabolically, which it does not appear to be, estrogen synthesis is impossible in the body. Although nandrolone is a weak substrate for aromatase, estrogen levels can still rise during use. With trenbolone we actually expect a lowering of serum estrogen levels, as it should suppress endogenous testosterone release (the primary substrate for estradiol in men).


    Trenbolone (17beta-hydroxyestra-4,9,11-trien-3-one)
    Androgenic Activity
    Although derived from nandrolone, trenbolone is comparatively far more androgenic than this steroid. In fact it is several times stronger in this regard than our primary androgen testosterone as well (1). The first contributing factor to this of course is that trenbolone is a strong binder of the androgen receptor. This trait is also characteristic of its parent nandrolone, which is several times more active than testosterone in this regard. Androgen binding is in fact further enhanced by the introduction of double bonds in delta-9,11 (2), which makes trenbolone an even more potent agonist of the androgen receptor than nandrolone. Perhaps more significant though is the fact that unlike nandrolone, the strong receptor binding potency of trenbolone is not diminished in androgen sensitive tissues by 5-alpha reductase. Trenbolone does not seem to undergo 5-alpha reduction in humans to any appreciable degree at all, which is evidenced by the fact that the major urinary metabolites of trenbolone all possess the original tri-en structure with an intact delta-4 group (3). So trenbolone retains its original potency as it enters cells in androgen target tissues with high 5AR concentrations, as this enzyme is not affecting it. These factors work together to allow trenbolone to be a potently androgenic steroid, instead of a primarily anabolic one in nature like nandrolone. .
    Progestational Activity
    It has been reported in other bodybuilding literature that trenbolone does not exhibit any activity as a progestin in the body. I am not certain where this belief originated, as trenbolone does appear to exhibit the classic progesterone receptor binding ability that is characteristic of nandrolone and its derivatives. One study looking at the bovine uterine progesterone receptor for example found trenbolone to be a very potent binder, startlingly even more so than progesterone itself (4). Another looking at the binding of various compounds to the androgen, estrogen, progestin, mineral corticoid and glucocorticoid receptors found trenbolone to be a more potent binder of the progestin receptor than nandrolone (5), a steroid normally noted for its usual activity in this regard. What does this mean for trenbolone? I don’t think it really means that much. Trenbolone clearly doesn’t cause gyno, water retention or fat buildup, which one might attribute to estrogenic or progestational activity. So whatever slight action it does have as a progestin on paper doesn’t amount to all that much in the real world. The absence of estrogen may be a significant factor, as progesterone is believed to cause gyno by enhancing estrogen’s stimulation of mammary gland growth (6). Perhaps when trenbolone is taken with other aromatizable compounds it could affect a person’s sensitivity level to gyno and water/fat retention. This seems logical, at least in a technical sense, although admittedly I have seen no evidence to support this.
    Mass or Cutting Agent
    The potently androgenic and non-aromatizing nature of trenbolone makes it an extremely effective hardening and cutting agent. In fact, it is thought of as unmatched in its capacity as a body-sculpting steroid. Many competitive bodybuilders similarly find it indispensable to any good pre-contest cutting stack. For this type of purpose I doubt another steroid would serve you better. Many people do additionally find they make very good muscle gains with trenbolone. It is a potent muscle-builder, although we should probably not consider it an ideal mass-builder when used alone. The absence of estrogen is an important factor, as this trait seems integral in this type of steroid. This probably has to do not only with water retention but also interactions between estrogen and muscle glucose utilization, GH release and androgen receptor proliferation. Today we are finally starting to understand why this hormone is needed for optimal growth. Trenbolone is probably still the most potent muscle-building agent of all the non-estrogenic steroids though, and admittedly is quite unusual in its potency in this regard. But I would still think that if mass were the goal and you were choosing only one steroid, testosterone, Dianabol or Anadrol would be more productive every time in terms of overall size, weight and muscle mass gain.
    Availability
    As mentioned in the opening of this article, trenbolone has been plagued by periods of manufacturing inconsistency, high prices and scarce availability since it first hit the market in the early 80’s. There is probably little need to revisit in detail the rise and fall of Finajet in the 1980’s, or the demise of Parabolan in 1997. Clearly the colorful history of trenbolone is well discussed. But today’s situation is no less interesting, as we are in a unique situation. For the first time in four years we have a legitimate injectable trenbolone again, as the Mexican veterinary drug firm Laboratories Ttokkyo has recently started producing Trenbol, a 10 ml bottle of trenbolone acetate (TA) in the strength of 75mg/ml. This product is not cheap, and usually sells for upwards of $150 a bottle. Reportedly Denkall is working on a similar item, and there are some reliable underground generics floating about as well that sell for a better price and usually supply a comparable amount of TA. There have been some questions about raw material supply lately though, and whether or not both types of product would remain on the market. This discussion was heightened by the recent removal of Trenbol from Ttokkyo’s website (www.ttokkyo.com.mx), which is making a lot of people nervous that this product may be on the way out. Hopefully this is just a website problem and not a repeat of the fate that fell on Finajet and Parabolan. If these products do dry up, trenbolone will still be available, but in the form of cattle implant pellets. In Part II of this article I will take a closer look at these unusual products, as well as the various methods utilized by bodybuilders in an effort to effectively use them.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deacon
    Not too many steroids have an air of mystique about them quite like trenbolone. It is one of those agents that you will hear talked up aggressively by some guy in the gym, to later find he has not even tried it himself yet. The bodybuilding literature is full of strong, unusual, and often-inaccurate statements about this drug, and consequently an air of misunderstanding has begun to cloud our view of trenbolone. The unusual history of this compound, including prolonged periods of very limited availability and high selling prices, has no doubt played a part in shaping the view of this steroid in the minds of athletes. It seems when anything is out of reach, overly expensive or both, people start looking at it in a different way. I therefore thought it would be a good idea to take a closer look at the physical properties of trenbolone, as well as its current state of availability and use.

    Great Read!

    Opi... I don't know what to tell you. Just remember you have to live with your choice. I love tren (I never ran enanthate, only the acetate), but you situation is different than mine. Just give it real thought, don't rush cause of the start date you planned. I am researching this extensivly in my free time, and will post what I find. It is slow going though, as I am trying to use scientific literature rather than more opinon based writing.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOGAN
    all he ever says is blah if he doesnt hear what he wants to....he asks for advise and when he gets it it doesnt matter to him anyway....so why even help him out
    We try to help all our members. Everyone has differen takes and views on life

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOGAN
    all he ever says is blah if he doesnt hear what he wants to....he asks for advise and when he gets it it doesnt matter to him anyway....so why even help him out
    You forgot to add that he won't research on his own.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opi
    Ok somebody needs to give me some solid responses because I'm supposed to start tomorrow and as of right now I still plan on doing it.
    If you're not sure about anything dealing with your cycle, I'd advise to wait before you start it.

    Would you buy a car you're unsure about just to meet some time line you set for yourself?



    Obviously, you're mind is set. But, if you haven't done the neccessary research ahead of time, why rush anything?

    Asking questions is a great tool, but it's not research. It's merely a tool centered around experience.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowpro
    If you're not sure about anything dealing with your cycle, I'd advise to wait before you start it.

    Would you buy a car you're unsure about just to meet some time line you set for yourself?



    Obviously, you're mind is set. But, if you haven't done the neccessary research ahead of time, why rush anything?

    Asking questions is a great tool, but it's not research. It's merely a tool centered around experience.

    good point

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOGAN
    all he ever says is blah if he doesnt hear what he wants to....he asks for advise and when he gets it it doesnt matter to him anyway....so why even help him out
    Yeah I hear you bro. Opi is bullheaded. What's the point in asking when he does what he wants anyways? The next thread will be looking for sympathy when he is on his death bed saying he should have listened.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironone1
    Yeah I hear you bro. Opi is bullheaded. What's the point in asking when he does what he wants anyways? The next thread will be looking for sympathy when he is on his death bed saying he should have listened.
    What he wants is someone to give him the go ahead.


    Opi, why do you even ask for help when you

    (a) don't care for the advise
    (b) don't agree with the advise


    I'm not trying to be mean. The good bro's here have been trying to help you and you just say stuff like - I'm doing it anyways or I need to know because I start tomorrow.


    Good luck bro.

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