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Thread: Chest training

  1. #1

    Default Chest training

    I don't believe in doing "exercises" per se.There are lots of ways to move a weight from A to B that don't necessarily involve the intended muscles much.What can a muscle actually do?It can shorten,it can lengthen,or it can remain static.Another way to say "contract as much as possible" is to say"pose".I think of "posing" a muscle against resistance on the positive contraction,and "stretching"against resistance on the negative lengthening.

    So to train a specific muscle,I ask,"What does this muscle do?What is it's function?"The chest draws your arms towards the front of your body.It does not extend them away from your body.That is the work of the triceps,and the reason why I personally never do bench presses for chest.I will do reverse grip presses in a Smith machine for triceps,but that's another story.I realize that most of you will continue to do bench presses and I'll make a suggestion on how to possibly make them a bit more productive.

    The final point I would like to make,before we begin,is that I consider it crucial to "initiate" the movement with the target muscle.If you are training chest,your chest should be the first thing to contract and be the impetus for the weight moving.Now let's look at some specific movements.

    Bench press:Everyone's favorite for some reason,yet from the looks of things,it doesn't seem to be working that well.Let's see if we can change that.What you want to do is move your shoulders "back,and down".That is,with arms extended,drop your shoulders back towards the floor and down towards your waist.Notice how this pushes your chest into the air.Now,HOLD this position as you press.

    Dips:I perform these the "Vince Gironda" way and it really hits the outer edge,giving you an awesome "V" look from the front.You want your elbows out to the side.Keeping them close to your body and going behind you is straightening your arms and that's how you do them for triceps.You want to imagine that you're doing a "Most Muscular"pose as you push yourself up.

    The starting position is,with elbows out wide,place your chin on your chest and bring your feet out in front of you so that your body resembles a "half moon" from the side.Now lower slowly and under control into a "stretch" position.Now,pushing your hands together into a most muscular pose,rise .You obviously can't push your hands together,but try,and you'll rise....Girls stare at my chest a lot when they're talking to me,and I believe this move is the reason.

    Cable flyes:Again,the way I see people doing this,is all triceps.And there's practically no resistance against the muscle at peak contraction.I could stand there all day with my arms thrust out in front of me,cause nothing's happening.

    I back up,so that with my arms in front of me,my hands are in a straight line from one pulley to the other.If you look at the letter "I",that would be me,looking from the top.The top bar is my hands and the cables,the bottom bar my body and the middle,my arms.This implies that my arms are straight and this will be the case with a light weight.This is hard to explain,so bear with.

    From the weight stack on my left,the cable to my left hand,the cable from my right hand,to the weight stack on the right,is a straight line,with me standing behind it.Now I can't go into a stretch position with this,because the weight can't move behind me.I use this as a "finishing" move.I start with 100 lbs or so.Now with this weight,my arms are bent somewhat,or they'd get ripped off.But my hands are still "in line" with the cable.Initiating the movement from my pec,I pose my hands towards one another.I squeeze my pecs as hard as possible,and there's no way I could stand there all day.

    Next,I'll drop the weight to 60 lbs.Now I can straighten my arms more.Again,initiating from the pec,I pose my arms together.Finally I'll drop to 30 lbs.Now my arms are completely straight,my hands in line with the cables.With this light weight I can totally concentrate on posing my pecs against resistance as hard as possible.Talk about a pump!Whew!

    I also like heavy dumbell flyes,which for me is 120 lbs.I didn't start at this weight so don't be discouraged if you're not there yet.I put my shoulders "back and down" as in the bench press and I don't go up all the way,as I like to keep constant tension on the muscle.

    I also do "extreme stretching"after each movement.The bottom position of the dip,the bottom position of the dumbell flye,and I'll also stretch at the cable flye by turning so my arm is well behind me.With the stack set at 20 lbs,I'll start from full-on stretch and initiate the contraction in my pec for a short range and go back to a full stretch.

    I usually do one set of these three exercises to failure,followed by a stretch and a drop-set and stretch on the cable flyes and I'm done.I train back and chest together,alternating,and when I'm done I walk around a bit in a lat spread,squeezing my pecs.Fun stuff.

    That's it for now.Next time we'll talk about training back.Have fun!

  2. #2
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    Default

    i dont think i would call that a true fly brutha. sounds like you created or improvised a semi fly half press. i'm not trying to be disrespectfull or saying it doesnt work. i have made up & improvised plenty of movments. whatever works right ? i'll have to give it a try when i get 90-100%.

  3. #3
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    ooh, i know what you mean about the cable flys. i see people leaning way into it & basicly doing cable presses. GO TO THE DAMN BENCH IF YOU WANT TO DO A PRESS MOVEMENT !!!.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mtex
    i dont think i would call that a true fly brutha. sounds like you created or improvised a semi fly half press. i'm not trying to be disrespectfull or saying it doesnt work. i have made up & improvised plenty of movments. whatever works right ? i'll have to give it a try when i get 90-100%.
    I'm not sure what you mean bro,but if you're referring to the dumbell flye,I call it a "flye' because I'm not straightening my arms much.It's just that I start with my shoulders back and down in the stretch position.After that it's pretty much like "hugging a tree" as Arnold put it.I just don't go all the way up,to where I feel the tension leaving my chest.Does that make sense?But again,I don't believe in "exercises".Each person has the responsibility of fine-tuning things so that they derive the maximum benefit for THEM.I'm just pointing in a direction.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtex
    i dont think i would call that a true fly brutha. sounds like you created or improvised a semi fly half press. i'm not trying to be disrespectfull or saying it doesnt work. i have made up & improvised plenty of movments. whatever works right ? i'll have to give it a try when i get 90-100%.
    bro this is as true of a fly as one gets, you need to try it before commenting - it works about 250% better then the regular fly because the regular fly targets an array group of muscles vs. this that targets very specific areas for maximum results.

    For example, the bench press is NOT a good chest exercise, it's not even a chest exercise - for it works the delts and arms more then chest - but due to "popular" belief it's thought of as a chest exercise like no other.

    i.e. this fly is the real fly , others are just not efficient

    Mr.X

  6. #6

    Default

    Now boys,there's no reason to argue.Mtex wasn't trying to start anything.He was just making a clarification.It's all good...
    And BTW,I don't claim that this is "the real flye"and others are no good.Some people just seem to have trouble with chest,and I'm trying to help.

  7. #7
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    after rereading i must agree. actually thats how i do a fly. but i add an isotention flex at the end to help- the arnold method to aid in the wasted motion. what threw me off was the 120 lbs. i mean , that would be like a world record LOL(ok maybe not). all the articles i have ever read from arnold , coleman , yates etc etc , i have never heard of a fly w/ 120's. not saying you cant but that is a feet i would like to witness.

  8. #8
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    Bro , if SYL says he uses 120´s for those, then that´s what he does. To me it´s no surprise( the weight) , since I´ve done reps with 45 kg´s( about 100 lbs). that was some 10 yrs ago , when I trained in a gym that had dumbbels heavy enough. Also I quess SYL is not actually making a point of how STRONG he is , rather saying as it is . and that is , well pretty strong! A truly great post SYL. That´s exactly what I want to read more , different variations and training systems etc... training info at is best!
    want explode your head? smoke dynamite

  9. #9
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    no SYL, your way is a real fly so you can claim that. but using 120's i think you should change your screen name to bad mofo LOL

  10. #10

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    Well 120 is the most I've used,but it's usually 100 or 110,depending upon how I feel that day,and whether I did dips first.But you aren't surprised that someone can use their triceps to push 120's,when the pecs are a larger muscle?Here's the thing...most people cannot and will never do flyes with half their bodyweight,because they have a weak chest.This is due to the fact that all along they thought they were training chest,but in actuality,were training triceps and front delts...In the beginning,when I train someone,the first thing I tell them is that they are here to train their muscles,not their egos,because frankly their ego is big enough.To do it the way I suggest,they have to drop the weight considerably at first.But by insisting that they actually work the muscle they're training,they go far beyond what they were previously capable of,and would have been capable of.Most trainees can't do more then 3 or 4 dips the first time under my direction.Some are actually foolish enough to quit out of embarrassment,and go back to desperately bouncing 315 off their chest,like it's going to magically start working someday...Just start with something you can handle.Initiate the movement with your chest.Read that again,as it is the most crucial point in all of this.Then squeeze that weight up.Lower slowly,and repeat.I can't tell you how good it feels to lift a heavy weight just by squeezing your pecs.Believe me when I tell you that you can do it.I also employ extreme stretching and recommend you incorporate that as well.

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